John C. Morley: Hello, everyone. It's that time for the JMOR Tech Talk Show where we answer questions about technology, explain the way they should work, and why they are toned sometimes. And now here's your host, John C. Morley. Hey, everybody, welcome once again to the JMOR Tech Talk Show, you know, lots has been happening with technology, especially when we get into robotics. You know, the new Robot starfish aims to a closer study of aquatic life, which is pretty amazing. They're actually doing something like this some accross. Biologists have been experiencing challenges and how to record the way this type of life actually lives and they want to check their movements a little bit better. So this new device that's coming out is able to do just that. And it is a soft robotic fish. It's a computer science artificial intelligence type device that is going to be able to swim on anonymously. With real fish on the coral reefs of Fiji This is going to be quite amazing. And you know, lots of stuff is high. Tonight. We have a great show for you. And I want to let you know that we have a great guest coming up right now. Dr. Dr. Dr. James Granger, MD. He is a physician, acupuncture and injury. He provides acupuncture and physiotherapy services in his offices. He is a certified independent medical examiner through the American Board of independent medical examiners. He bites quality care for personal injuries and workers compensation cases. He works closely with many attorneys and chiropractors in the greater Atlanta area. And at his office, he prides himself in injured patients into his office for medical treatment quickly. They also work very closely with chiropractors to provide pain medication management during the course of the patient's therapy. And of course, they provide chronic pain management services, as they are a licensed pain clinic. Dr. Dr. Dr. James Granger does quite a bit and he's going to be with us tonight to talk a little more about what going on with COVID maybe help us bunks some myths. So please, without any further ado, help me welcome to the J Moore Tech Talk Show. Dr. James Granger, MD. Hey, everybody, it is John C. Morley from the J. Moore Tech Talk Show. And I am very pleased today to have Dr. Dr. Dr. James Granger with us. A man that focuses on helping people by making sure they don't have pain and not having to take any kind of pills or drugs. Welcome Dr. Granger to
. Dr. James Granger: Thank you.
John C. Morley: So I got to ask you, Dr. Granger. What is it that makes someone like you become passionate to want to help people and do it without drugs? Can you give us a little background on that, please?
Dr. James Granger: Yeah, for years, I worked alongside chiropractors treating people for personal injuries. And they were basically doing all the healing. And all I was doing was, you know, prescribing pain medication that basically put a bandage on the injuries and the chiropractors were doing the healing. So I started looking for other things that I could do to help patients heal, and I practice Chinese martial arts. So that led me to acupuncture. And while all this was happening, it was in the midst of the opioid epidemic, which is still ongoing. So I really saw the damage that the opiate pain medications were doing to people so I, you know, made a decision to use acupuncture and medically assisted therapy to try and get people off of the opiates or even better to present people with an option before they get started on opiates. Because the way our healthcare system is set up, it really favors just a prescription rather than you know longer term, non-addictive therapies. You know, the opiates can be a long road that goes on forever whereas, you know, acupuncture if you get an injury and treat it quickly in the beginning, you don't have that problem.
John C. Morley: Dr. Granger. Acupuncture has been around for what about 2500 some years is that right?
Dr. James Granger: Yes, some authorities will tell you even longer 3500 to 4000 years
John C. Morley: So why is it that so many people out there have the ability to have access to this? And they and also their doctors don't recommend this? What's the reason I always thought that doctors take an oath to help people to do what's right for the patient? Can you shed a little light on that because I'm a little lost there?
Dr. James Granger: Well, there are a number of factors there. One is the education doctors receive is pretty much geared on pharmaceuticals and surgery, you know, physical therapy, acupuncture, chiropractic, you know, they're either ridiculed or, you know, disregarded, then you have the insurance component where a doctor may be willing to send a patient for physical therapy, acupuncture, chiropractic, but the insurance company won't pay for it. So then your only option is to prescribe an opiate, which of course favors you know, profit margin for the pharmaceutical industry, the patient gets addicted to opiates. They never get better. You know, I've seen hundreds of patients, if not 1000s, that have had surgeries, because of pain. And after the surgery, they're still taking the same or more opiates than they were before the surgery.
John C. Morley: And what is your take, if I may ask your doctor on COVID-19, the pandemic, where we're going and also with the vaccines, I mean, what's really happening? It just seems like our world is very confused. And I'm also a volunteer first responder. And it seems like we're getting mixed messages. What's your high level overview on what's happening? What is the vaccine? Should people get it? Is it going to help? What's the goal? And then we also talk about the fact that people want to have herd immunity? I mean, is there any science to all this? Or are we just speculating on something that sounds good for politics?
Dr. James Granger: Wow, that's I could spend a long time answering all that. But just to kind of give you a brief answer, I have a number of my patients will ask me what I think about the vaccine. And I just simply tell them, I'm at the end of the line, I'm not rushing to get a vaccine. What people need to understand is this COVID vaccine, it's a new technology mRNA. It wasn't tested on animals. As far as I've seen, it's been less than nine months; we don't know how safe it is for women at childbearing or pre childbearing age. There's the possibility of having a condition called E which is basically where your immune system goes into overdrive should you run into another strain of COVID. And you could actually be worse than if you fought it with your own natural immunity. The biggest problem I have with the way COVID has been handled is there are a number of treatments that are non-pharmaceutical. That should have been researched decades before COVID even appeared. They were reportedly effective for influenza; they're not researched, because they're not pharmaceutical. One is if you know your listeners can Google low medium dissect them and how it was used during the 1918 pandemic. There's really no excuse as to why those remedies haven't been investigated. Just enough, the quick fact is in China 92% of their patients; they're using some form of Chinese herbal remedies, or medicine in addition to Western medicine. And I'll leave the numbers game for another day. But the statistics we're receiving are just not accurate.
John C. Morley: They're astronomically inaccurate. And I have to laugh because a while ago, I think it was maybe just about the beginning of this. They actually found out that in some areas, they were reporting COVID wrong. And it wasn't because someone counted wrong. It was because Excel wasn't able to track that many zeros. So that was a serious bug. They couldn't handle exponential notation. And they were severely off on their predictions. So I mean, that's a real mouthful, but I have to ask you, everywhere we go and I have one on my desk that has the more around and it you know, we have here our masks is wearing a mask something that's really helping people. I mean, I get why we're supposed to wear it and I'm not against it. But what are your feelings about the mask and I know it's not going to change what we do because we're not going to be able to go into a store if we don't we're a mess. So what's your take on that because that's my concern? They keep telling us to do things but then they keep changing five feet. 10 feet 20 feet when I go to a restaurant I want to sit 50 feet from somebody indoors; I don't trust this six foot or eight foot nonsense rule.
Dr. James Granger: Well, the mass thing is interesting because the, you know, when they COVID first started, they said, Oh, you don't need a mass, keep it for the first responders and they need to end 95 because the surgical mask doesn't work. And all of a sudden, that's morphed into everybody should use a mask of some kind, everything, its gone work, and now they're saying where to mask. And years ago, the World Health Organization said that masks don't work against influenza. And COVID is a smaller virus than influenza. So how's it going to stop? You how's the mass going to stop the COVID. And they're saying, Well, COVID is attached to a particle that's big enough that the mass will stop it. But at the end of the day, the CDC director came out at one point before the vaccine said these masks are all we have. So from my point of view, the mask is just a way of appeasing the population, I don't really think they do any good. I haven't seen anything showing where the mask is in the population. You know, if you compare California to say, Tennessee, you know, one area uses mass, and the other doesn't. It doesn't seem to be making a difference. But they have to offer something to the population. So I think that's what it is. Similar to the vaccine, they don't, they fail to investigate any treatments. So they put all their eggs in one basket saying vaccine. So that's where we are today.
John C. Morley: So is there a real difference, and obviously, when I do respond, I wear an N 95 masks. And those masks have a lot tighter seal on your face. And if you don't wear ear Savers, they can really give your ears a feeling that's not pleasant after four or five hours. When someone wears a mask like this, and they put it on, would you say there is a big difference between the cloth masks, the paper masks, obviously in 95 is different? But is there really a difference between like the cloth and the paper mask other than the paper masks actually shape your face and they scratch it a lot and cause other issues because your skin can't breathe?
Dr. James Granger: Yeah, but 95 is going to have better protection against viruses if it's fitted properly. And that's the other problem is most people, you know, haven't been trained and are used to wearing 90 fives and keeping them fitted on their face. We've all been around seeing people with their masks hanging over their nose. It's, you know, masks have to be used properly to work. But the surgical masks aren't designed, excuse me to prevent viruses. They're designed to protect fluids going from physician or practitioner to patient and back and forth in surgery. So they're not designed to prevent viral transmission. Like I said, they came out and said, this is all we have. So that's what we have to do. I require my patients to wear a mask when they come in the office, but that's more so you know, the immunocompromised patients, my staff and others can feel comfortable. But do I really think it's doing any good? No. I haven't seen any population with mass where it does any good. And even where there are populations, then you have to account for Okay, is it the mask? Or is it social distancing?
John C. Morley: I think the problem is, is that everyone is kind of, you know, clenching for something, you know, going for an answer? How do you see COVID-19? And I mean, it does going to be a while, obviously, I think probably a year or more. But how do you see this virus because very similar to the flu, how do you see this ending? But the thing about this virus is that it's killing people. The flu doesn't have these kinds of numbers. Why is this so different? Dr. Granger.
Dr. James Granger: I'm not 100% sure on the numbers yet, because I just did a brief glance the other day, and it looks like the flu numbers have gone down while the COVID numbers have gone up. And I'm not really sure if some of these COVID numbers are actually flu numbers. But to answer your question, how do I see it stopping? Well, since we're so slow on vaccinating, I think we're gonna hit, you know, herd immunity through natural immunity, you know, at a point and then they're just going to attribute it to the vaccine. And then they'll probably come out and say, well, there's new strains, you need another vaccine and we're going to have a whole nether schedule of vaccines that people are advised that they should get. Personally, I trust my natural immunity, more so than an experimental vaccine. It's only been out for nine months. But that's a choice for each person to make with their physician.
John C. Morley: I tend to agree with you Dr. Granger that you If we have a healthy body, and we keep it in good shape, we're going to be able to fight off things a lot better. And if somebody develops COVID, unfortunately, their body is going to learn how to, you know, build up the protection system to block it next time or get rid of it faster. But yet so many people are dying, which is what makes this so critical. And it's almost mind boggling the way this is happening.
Dr. James Granger: Yeah, and the thing, one of the things that really intrigues me is if you look at the deaths per capita, you know that the question is, why is the US getting hit so bad. And, you know, compared to countries that have, you know, arguably inferior healthcare systems. And the one thing that stands out to me is here in the US, we, per capita, have more processed food than any other country in those processed foods create an inflammatory state in the body, which as we know, people with inflammatory conditions like diabetes, heart conditions, are predisposed have higher mortality with COVID. So I think one of the things that really need to be looked at as well is, you know, how does the body's nutritional state, the intake of processed foods affect COVID morbidity and mortality? Because I just can't think of any other reason why the US has been hit so hard. I mean, human transmission is one thing, but the mortality, morbidity, you know, from getting infected with the viruses and other things.
John C. Morley: Is this you think because of a lack of knowledge, not that our medical people do, you know, not know what they're doing. But is it because maybe they don't have the knowledge in this area that they're just kind of like struggling or grappling for something to do?
Dr. James Granger: Well, a lot of times, it goes back to training, you know, physicians are primarily trained for pharmaceuticals and surgery. When I was in medical school, there were only four schools that had nutritional programs as part of their curriculum. So most doctors aren't really thinking about true preventative medicine other than vaccines. So if this summation primarily from pharmaceutical companies,
John C. Morley: if this pandemic is going the way it is, do you see that we're looking at a year? How do you see this kind of fizzling? Where is this going to stop? Or is it never going to ever have a stop point?
Dr. James Granger: I think the severity of it will decrease a lot, maybe in a year, year and a half. But what we'll probably see is a number of additional vaccines come out with these new variants. So life back to normal, you know, I can't even speculate on if we'll ever get back to normal. But as far as the severity and seeing the COVID numbers on the TV screen, as we read something resembling some type of herd immunity, that'll go down, but I expect that we'll see new vaccines being required due to the new variants that are coming out.
John C. Morley: So right now we've got a couple of vaccines, I think there was something close to us at 103 of them actually failed. FDA approval, and we have three that are in, you know, processes that are approved. And of that there is another 90 some or 95 more that are still coming up the pike they're trying to get approved in the next year or two at a super early light speed rate.
Dr. James Granger: Yeah, excuse me. This is new technology with mRNA vaccines. So you know, whenever a new technology comes out, anybody that's in that sector is trying to get on the bandwagon so to speak.
John C. Morley: You mentioned something in our viewers may not know this, what is mRNA technology? Can you give us like maybe a dumbed down version of that so that everyone can understand that,
Dr. James Granger: mRNA to oversimplify it is just a genetic material that it's messenger RNA, which is a type of genetic material, and they're using that material to construct these viruses in this COVID viruses is I think it's the first one that they've ever put on market and certainly the first one that's been a vaccine of any type that's been put on market in such a short period of time. So it's a it's a new method for creating vaccine
John C. Morley: something they've never ever done for any vaccine in the past it's like a totally different process has never been explored before.
Dr. James Granger: Yeah, I think they tried it with SARS one they were all the test animals died, and then SARS one disappeared. So they didn't pursue it until COVID-19 came out. And now we have a vaccine that's been put out in less than a year.
John C. Morley: So I'm going to ask you something, let's just pretend that you were the head doctor for the CDC, for the United States. What would you be doing right now? If you were the one that was giving all the command and control orders,
Dr. James Granger: The first thing I would do is start looking for treatments, in addition to the vaccines, because there's stuff on the shelf that may be working, you know, the hydroxychloroquine is still a question. The ivermectin is a question. There are a number of herbal remedies that haven't been tested. You know, this is an all hands on deck, you know, anything possible, we need to look at the vitamin D levels, and mortality and morbidity. You know, all these things we have on the shelf that we haven't looked at, you know, in addition to vaccines, because vaccines if you're doing it right, take years of testing. But if I have something like a low medium, or a hydroxychloroquine, or an ivermectin that's on the shelf, it's inexpensive, and it works. We need to be using it.
John C. Morley: But for some reason, they're just not, I guess, exploring that. I just can't believe how fast things are becoming approved. That's boggling my mind right now.
Dr. James Granger: Well, the thing is, they're being approved for emergency use. So they're technically not approved yet. But they're rushing anybody and everybody to go get them in. There's another condition, antibody dependent enhancement, where basically, if you get a vaccine, when you do run into the COVID-19, or another strain, your body overreacts, and it ends up being worse than if you hadn't had the vaccine. Now, if we vaccinate all our first responders and doctors, and that becomes a problem, game over. I mean, it's just catastrophic.
John C. Morley: So you're thinking, I guess, the way I might be speculating is that the vaccine is optional right now, and it probably should stay optional, because it's not something people are just going to rush to go get, even if you could get it tomorrow. I don't know if that would be in my bailiwick to want to get it tomorrow.
Dr. James Granger: Yeah, that's why I simply tell my patients, you know, I'm at the end of the line, it's too early for me, you know, not even nine months. I mean, just think about it this way, we're, and we don't know what it does for pregnancy and fertility we can't possibly know.
John C. Morley: Well, they're saying doesn’t take it, they're saying, don’t take it.
Dr. Dr. James Granger: It hasn't been, you know, a full 40 weeks of pregnancy. So if you don't know what it's doing to pregnant women, it's only been out for nine months, I'm, I'm going to pass, you know, because there's the possibility of, you know, okay, I get my two, my two shots, and I'm feeling good. But down the road, when I run into this virus or another one. I could have bigger problems. And if I just trusted my natural immunity,
John C. Morley: I can understand that. And it's just that I think everyone's feeling this peer pressure, just go do it. But that may not be the greatest thing. My biggest, I guess, complaint is that a lot of people are just not taking it seriously. You know, they don't understand what social distancing is. They don't understand what it means to not gather. I think that's the biggest problem that I'm seeing. There is that group of people that don't want to cooperate even with, you know, keeping it contained?
Dr. James Granger: Yeah, the lack of social distancing, I think, is the biggest problem. You know, I've had people come into my office refusing to wear a mask, and they just get turned right around and go out the door. You know, we make an effort to keep people separate. It's hard to explain in detail without you seeing the office, but just to make sure patients aren't running across in front of each other in close quarters in the hallway. The social distancing thing is, you know, the biggest thing and it's so inconsistent from one county to one state, different parts of the country, and people are screaming, my freedom, my freedom, and it's, it's just a ridiculous perspective. Really,
John C. Morley: you bring something else to like Dr. Granger. A lot of employers that I know, have people fortunately, that might have gotten the COVID-19 virus. And everyone always says, you know, wait the 14 days and come back to work. But I believe that that may not be enough, especially after the 14 days if they're still not feeling well. Should the employer really have the right To make them have a test before they return to work, because there's a lot of how can I say, push back on this?
Dr. James Granger: Yeah, if they're symptomatic, they should still stay at home as far as a test to come back to work. I think that's a liability issue more than anything, because if you have employee a comes back to work hasn't, you know, has a documented COVID case doesn't have a negative test coming back into work, and then somebody else test positive, and they blame it on them in on you for letting them back into the workspace, then that's a problem. The other problem with that on the other side is they can have a false positive test. After they've quarantined and got rid of the virus, that's part of it too. But now, having said that, I err on the safe side of myself, I have my patients who have tested positive have a negative COVID test before they come back in the office, and we just use telemedicine until they get that negative test, which the vast majority have had a negative test, I haven't had anybody yet that I can think of that had a positive test after their 14 days of quarantine and becoming asymptomatic.
John C. Morley: But if they refuse to take that test it's pretty much it's almost like I always say to a doctor, if you're not part of the solution, your part of the problem. And I get a lot of this has to do with attitude. You know, the woe is me. You know, I don't want to do it. It's like; I always say to people, you have to take action for something to happen. You can't just wait. And whether that is a check from the government, on employment, you need to still be doing things. There are so many people out there right now that are saying, well, gee, I can't network. Well, what about online? Oh, I don't want to deal with that nonsense. So I think it's a mindset, what do you think, doctor?
Dr. James Granger: Well, it's, you know, we all have things that we don't want to do that as adults, we have to do. You want to, you know, work in it in a place where you're making a living, and they require that COVID test after you've been exposed, then whether you want to do it or not, you got to do it. It's just like, nobody wants to wear a mask, but we have to do it. It's we have to look beyond ourselves as individuals and realize that we're part of a collective. You're part of a community. And you don't want to expose other people; you want other people to feel comfortable. So wear the mask, take the test when it's required.
John C. Morley: That's why even if I'm going to travel to see my folks and they're actually in Florida, I take the test before I travel, very careful when I travel, take the test when I come back, and people think I'm crazy. I still remember going to an airport in Fort Myers. And there was a gentleman there, and he didn't have a mask on and they had port authority from New York, New Jersey, which is the people that man the airports, the police here, they had brought them to Florida just to keep peace. And the one gentleman didn't have a mask on. And the officer just you know, points to his face. And he says mask and the guy says what he says he says there's no sign on the door here. So this is Florida. He says I don't have to wear a mask in the airport. And the officer very politely says, you're correct. There is no sign. When you board the plane, you know, you're going to need to wear a mask and he says, Well, when I get on the plane, I'll wear one and mind your own damn business. So he's in this line, people are getting a little huffy. And he says, you know, I know I can't tell you to wear a mask. Would you do I a favor and please put one on? A lot of these people in this line are not going to be very happy with you, because you're not wearing one. And I don't want to see a fistfight breakout. So could you please put your mask on? And he gave a whole song and dance and he put one up? He goes to you people, a bunch of babies. I'll put one on just to please you to pacify everybody. So I think that is just terrible behavior.
Dr. James Granger: Yeah, and that's, you know, I put up with Well, I don't put up with it. But I encounter that type of behavior several times a week. I've had patients come in the door saying, well, my husband doesn't want me to wear a mask. And you know, of course my response to that. Well, this isn't your husband's office. No, he doesn't want you to wear a mask and here he wants you to go to a different office. No, I don't like wearing a mask. But no, I know if I got to go get groceries I put a mask on. It's going to make somebody beer comfortable in the midst of a pandemic. Protect where there are people who are immunocompromised and you don't know who you're standing next to. So it's just it's almost to a level of common courtesy. You know, I'll sit here and say that the mass really doesn't prevent everything but at the same time, just wear the mask, you know, as common courtesy. It's not that hard. You're not accomplishing anything by protesting it or refusing to do it.
John C. Morley: I agree with you, I love when you go to the, you know, superstores and you go to buy something, and you probably remember this not too long ago, maybe several months back, you go to buy brownie or other paper towels and the family pack. And somebody almost charges you down like you're on the football end zone. And I said to the lady, look, you can have the last pack of paper towels, you need them more than I do if you're going to tackle me for them. Yeah, I mean, I just think it's crazy. Or when your car is here, and you're going this way, and they're having to fit in like I'm just going to the right, I'm not even going near you. I'm actually 20 feet from you. I think they have a little bit of paranoia, right? More than even what should be?
Dr. James Granger: Yeah. And, you know, there's so much inconsistency in the way things are done. You know, grocery stores, I go that I frequent, you know, originally I had arrows wanting everybody to go one way. And my thought was, okay, everybody's going one way. But if I know where my item is, and it's on this, and now I have to walk all the way to one end all the way back. So I'm spending twice as much time in the grocery store.
John C. Morley: Exactly. And this happens in some of the office superstores. You have to look and then I was in one store and I said I thought this was a, you know, a left lane. Oh, we changed it. Oh, because I was used to liking all the odd lanes. Were pretty much left in all the right lanes. We were right. So I understood it. Well, no, we changed that because we were having a lot of traffic issues on those two lanes on the end. So it's like you're right, the inconsistency is just not there. So what else can people do? Dr. Granger, I mean, I know every day I was told to take vitamin D. I take one vitamin D every day. And I actually think that helps me build immune what can people do today to protect themselves from COVID? Besides the standard things of, you know, washing their hands, putting a mask on social distancing? And are there any other treatments or cures for COVID then what we have now the vaccine,
Dr. James Granger: I won't say cures, but there are treatments. There are some Chinese herbal remedies, a number of herbal remedies that are antiviral that haven't been tested. I have a product I use for influenza type symptoms myself called BSC, it's a Chinese herbal remedy compound that's available over the counter, and you can get it at Amazon. The vitamin D you mentioned is a big one. And also, you know, I tell this to my patients just in general to avoid the white stuff, the white flour, sugar and dairy products because they all cause inflammation in the body. And if you look at the people with the highest morbidity and mortality with COVID is those are people in an inflammatory state. You know, the suffix is on a disease where their arthritis gastritis means inflammation. You have inflammation in the body that's either you have disease or you're predisposed to disease. So you want to get things out of your diet that caused inflammation.
John C. Morley: I want to circle back to something we talked about originally when you first came on acupuncture. Now when you think of being pricked, or stuck with these little tiny needles, how does this actually work? And why does it work because it is a little bit of an enigma to understand this.
Dr. James Granger: While your body has energy channels called meridians, and on these meridians are called are their acupuncture points where we placed the needles energy is flowing through your body as you might imagine, just like an EKG looks at electrical current through your, your heart, you have these meridians that go throughout the body. And by opening and closing different acupuncture points, you can treat disharmony, whether it's migraine headaches, back pain, knee pain, shoulder pain, stomach issues, you know, I tell patients anything causes pain, yeah, I'll treat it with acupuncture. So by opening and closing the channels, energy flow or flicking trains on different train tracks as an analogy I use, the body can heal itself. I mean, if you cut your scan and put a bandage on it, the band aid doesn't heal the cut, the body heals itself to the cut. Obviously, the more severe the injury, or the more chronic the injury, the more acupuncture you will need. Now, if your leg or arm is broken in half, obviously you need to go see an orthopedic surgeon. But if you're having chronic back pain, chronic migraine headaches, those types of things, shoulder pain, knee pain, you know, acupuncture can definitely help. I've had a lot of patients with anxiety and depression that have had good results with acupuncture Bell's palsy because that's a popular diagnosis now.
John C. Morley: Okay, well, what I have found that works really well. When I was actually in college A while back, I got very interested in hypnosis. And there was a gentleman you might know; I'm Dr. James J. maps. And he's in retainer. And he was on stage and I was part of the program Council and they said, you know, John, you need to present the deposit to him and the balance. And I think he got something like $20,000 for the deposit, and 20,000 for the balance. And I was very nice to him. And I said, look, sir, I've read up on you. I said, I don't want to become one of your guinea pigs on stage, I don't want to become part of your show, and I’m going to give you the $20,000 deposit. As long as there's no funny business, you'll get the remaining check if and when you don't cause me to be part of your show. Otherwise, you will not get the second check. And I may even stop payment on the first check. And so he went away and he was a little bit taken back because I didn't trust this guy. And I knew what he did because I read up on him. But after his show was over, I took a liking to hypnosis so much that I read his books, his audio books, I also took the silver method which you may or may not be familiar with. And then I decided to go and become certified hypnosis which I did for no other reason than to just help me set my goals faster. I feel that if we can just dive into that, you know subconscious. It's amazing how that runs 95% of our body on autopilot
Dr. James Granger: Yeah, and hypnosis is something I don't have a great deal of experience with. Okay. But I have had patients who had success with hypnosis as far as to quit smoking. I've had family members who quit smoking with hypnosis. So that is the one thing that I routinely recommend for patients who are trying to quit smoking. If they don't want to do acupuncture, then try hypnosis, I'd much rather have them do that and take some of these rescheduled antidepressants that they label as anti-smoking devices, when in fact, antidepressants.
John C. Morley: It's like they Black Label the drug. I learned this a while ago, when the drug isn't good for one classification, then they’re label it as something else. And even though it may cause fatigue, drowsiness, and possibly death, it's a great back pain drug. But it doesn't cover a skin condition. Or maybe the drug is bad for your heart, but it's great for your skin. Yeah, I'm using a real,
Dr. James Granger: That's exactly what goes on. And, and when they've gotten all the money out of it, they can then they make it over the counter. You know,
John C. Morley: It's just so surprising Dr. Granger that this is allowed to go on this is what really blows my mind.
Dr. James Granger: Well, the pharmaceutical lobby is very large and very wealthy. It's a worldwide thing.
John C. Morley: So it's not something that's going to change tomorrow, it's something that is,
Dr. James Granger: No, you and I will both be long gone before that even comes close to changing that, that I'm pretty sure.
John C. Morley: But more people are becoming open to another way of medicine, which is holistic medicine, and things of that nature. I've heard people have actually done it myself to get rid of cavities without having them filled. Now, this is not 123 magic, and it happens. There's a certain diet, you have certain things you can add. And you really can address these things. What's that one wise person that once said, you know, what you put your thoughts on is what manifests or what's going to become. And when you put your energy on something, you just keep focusing on it. But I was just so amazed. Because when a dentist says well, gee, that's impossible, that can never happen. And then when they go back and take x rays, and they're like, oh, yeah, you never had a cavity. And it just, but they're telling you to get rid of the cavity. So I know we're always supposed to take doctor's advice. But when it is that we have to, I guess, look into you is when we need a second opinion. Because that becomes a challenge. I'm sure even in your field, right? When do you have to? You know, even when you're going to a doctor, when is it that you have to go and say, wait a minute, how do I check this out? Or when should I question that?
Dr. James Granger: Well, at the end of the day, it's the patient's body, if you don't feel comfortable with the doctor or what the doctor prescribes, and either fined a different doctor or a different type of Doctor a second opinion is never really going to hurt. Now, if you start getting the same opinion from everybody, they might want to think maybe I should listen. But doctors are trained, you know, in a very specific area, you know, chiropractors, do chiropractic, medical doctors do pharmaceuticals and surgery.
John C. Morley: Right you're not going to a chiropractor to have a tooth extracted, or you're not going to go as I tell people to your barber because you need a dermatologist. I mean, you have to go to a specialist for that area.
Dr. James Granger: Yeah. But, you know, say you have upset stomach nausea all the time. You know, maybe the holistic, natural Pathway doctor can help you, maybe the traditional Chinese medicine doctor can help you, maybe the western medicine doctor can help you with that. You've got to take the options they give you in which one you feel most comfortable with. Now, the one you pick doesn't work, and then you move on to the next. But only go to a Western doctor. You just have to know you're limiting yourself and what your options are.
John C. Morley: I remember it was several years ago when I broke my TIB fib and no fault of my own. And the person at the hospital was saying Well, there's no way you can heal, you're going to need to have surgery. And I said, I don't think that's necessary because it's not a compound fracture. And it was funny because you're not a doctor. No, but my uncle was a doctor. Well, where is he? So he's retired. Well, he can't help you here. I said, Well, I called him. And he actually agrees with me that I don't need surgery. He's not, he doesn't know what he's talking about. He didn't see the x rays. He asked me if it was a compound fracture. And I told him, no. And he says, and there weren't multiple splits. He says, yeah, he doesn't know what he's talking about. We had to almost argue with them to the point. And they're like, okay, yeah, we were just trying to get you fixed up fast, you can get back on your feet. I said, I don't need to get back on my feet fast. I want to do what's best for my body. And so after I had the cast put on me, I still had to heal that bone. So I had a homeopathic person that I've dealt with for years. And they gave me something called bone, you might have heard of it. I took it after the first week, once the bone was kind of settled. And within, I'm going to tell you a week or so that bone just stitched together like that. I went back to the surgeon and they're like, your bones are ready together. I said, Yeah. He says, that can't be. And I told them what I didn't. He says, well, we don't believe in that nonsense. So it's very hard to explain what you're doing to a doctor, because some doctors, Dr. Granger, they're not open to hearing this.
Dr. James Granger: No. I've even heard similar stories. You know, from one guy I met years ago, who had a brain tumor, and they told him, well, we can't operate on you, we can only do radiation. And he didn't want that. So we went to a naturopathic doctor who put him on a nutritional regimen and the tumor started shrinking. And oncologists looked at him and said, well just keep doing whatever you're doing and walk out. My thing is, why didn't that oncologist ask him? What are you doing so we can help other patients? Doctors are almost brainwashed. Okay, and that sense blinders, very narrow minded. And it's unfortunate.
John C. Morley: Yeah, so I think that's a problem. But I think when you get that response from a doctor; my response would be to not take it personally. And to just treat it for the facts that it is, and deal with it like you would a business decision, you know, look at the facts.
Dr. James Granger: Yeah. And not. Not every doctor is for every patient. You know, that doctor you described would have been great for the person that, you know, wanted pins and rods and just the screws and everything and to be sent home rapidly.
John C. Morley: Well, at one o'clock in the morning, and I'm not going to mention the hospital wasn't even in New Jersey, but it was outside and I was traveling. They asked me to sign this document that was very long. And it was all digital. And I said, Well, I can't read that. They said everybody else just clicks all the way through and just signed the DNS or whatever, I'm not doing that. Well, we can't treat you without this will then print me to 65 pages. Well, we're going to have to see how we can do that. Because we've never had to do that before. So well. You can't expect me to read a screen. That's, you know, 510 feet away from me, and then just click sign. Everybody else does. I said, Yeah, I'm not everybody else. I said, what you don't know about me is that before I became an engineer, I actually did pre law. And I decided that I couldn't lie to people for a living. So I didn't become a lawyer. Well, that morning, which was actually that later that evening, I called my friend who was a lawyer, and I said to him, call him Jim, for argument's sake, Jim. I'm having a heck of a time here in this hospital. They keep trying to drug me. Luckily, my mind is stronger, and I'm beating this stuff, but they're playing games with me. And I said, don't have any rights. He says, yeah, he says, what hospital? Yeah. What's your fax number? Get the fax number. I told my son this one doctor is a few years older than me, and he's just really terrible, just as this attitude, okay, get the fax number. He faxes the document over. He calls me an hour later, he says, john, he says, How are you doing? I said, it's so quiet. I said, everybody's left me alone. He said, that's great. I said, what did you do? He says, Well, I sent them a letter. What was in the letter? He said, I sent them an informal cease and desist. I said, well, what is that? He says, Well, I just told them that I'm going to wait for the judge to jack them up. If they continue to harass you and try to push things down on you without your willingness to do that. And that they would basically be arrested and taken off premises until you are out of the hospital. I said, wow. He said, how's the doctor? So the doctor is still here. And he says, uh, oh, he's still bothering. I said, well, he's not bothering me. He just came in. And he's telling me I need to hang up with you. So let me talk to him. Puts him on the phone. He says who are you? I'm Dr. Such a real nasty and you know who I am. He says, I'm a friend of the patients, I'm also his lawyer. And I want to let you know that I just sent an informal cease and desist to your hospital. He goes, what the heck is all this is? Well, I'll tell you what that is. He says, it has your name on it. And everyone that's currently treating him is under this order, informally, that if you continue to harass him that we will pursue the judge up, and we will have you and the entire staff arrested and taken off premises until he is gone. He just likes he drops He's like, and so whatever he wants, you're going to give him and I wanted the several people, the head of the hospital had physical therapy, the head of surgery, there were like six, seven people. And in the beginning, they said, you can't get that we're way too busy. I said, I want those two hours before my surgery. They all came to my bedside two hours before surgery; they just moved me up into a room. I get up into the room, and they ask, `` How are you doing? I said, I'm fine. And I see no, I really don't think I need surgery. Well, you know, you're right. You really don't need surgery, but we're just trying to help you quicker. And so if it's my right, then I really don't want to do the surgery. He says, Well, he says, you know, we try to do what's best for the patient, because you don't necessarily know. So he says we can heal it with the cast, but it's not our optimum way to do it. And I said to him, No, I said, your staff is just trying to finance a new luxury sports car for themselves or their significant other. And I'm just part of that deposit. So I really don't want to be part of that. And he said to me, well, he says we'll go with the cast method, but it's going to be longer. It's that much longer as well, you'll be ready, maybe. May June, I said I can wait, I'm in no rush. The doctor puts a cast on me that was 70 pounds. Now that was spiteful. But my point is, this doctor was all about the way he wanted to do things. Dr. Ranger, he was not about the patient, his bedside manner I would give an F to.
Dr. James Granger: Yeah, that's what we call paternalism where it's, you know, you don't know, I have to tell you what's best for you. The polite way around that would have been for him to say, look, this is what I'm offering you if you don't want it, you know, you can have another doctor. You know nothing personal Good luck to you. But to have the arrogant, temperamental attitude of this is the only way to do it.
John C. Morley: But then the head of the hospital made him do exactly what I wanted, which they firmly approved and said it was perfectly okay.
Dr. James Granger: Yeah, that's because the head of the hospital probably wasn't a physician, and was only looking at it from a legal standpoint at that point. Okay, you know, particularly when you're dealing with, you know, orthopedic surgeons, and it's a stereotype for surgeons to be very condescending, so to speak. And it sounds like you ran into someone who fits that stereotype,
John C. Morley: I think, because he was a little bit older than me, not too much. He had that attitude. And then they would take X rays, they were going to send me all the way back downstairs to take X rays. And I said, why can't we just do the portable x ray machine? It's right here. Well, we don't have anybody that knows how to operate that on this floor.
Dr. James Granger: That is probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
John C. Morley: I asked for the head of the hospital again. Within 10 minutes, they came back out. What can we do for you? I said, Well, the doctor wants me to go all the way back to the emergency ward because he said there's no one here that can operate the X ray machine, the portable X ray machines. So we mean, he says this is what he's told me. Within five minutes, he got some lady to come over and they took the x rays and we were done.
Dr. James Granger: Well, here's the reason why that sounds so crazy to me. Okay. That's what my undergraduate degree was. I had a BS in radiography. I worked as an x ray tech in a hospital before med school alone. You don't you don't finish and get certified as an X-ray technologist without knowing how to operate both. I mean it's just ridiculous. It's saying Oh; I know how to operate an iPad but not an iPhone. That's about how ridiculous that
John C. Morley: I think they were being lazy and then when I got brought upstairs to a room, they wanted to take vitals, which was no problem but they wanted to take blood again. I said well wait a minute. Isn't this against my right? I was just admitted it's been within a 24 hour piece not even a 24 hour period. How can you take blood guidance in big English? I asked the head nurses what to do. Oh, he doesn't really speak English. I tried to explain to him that it's the third cuff not the first one. The first one's going to pop the SEC was going to pop so I showed him three he knew what I was talking about. So we put the first one on No good. Second went on through. I said, I told you three. Ah, yeah, I understand. So this is the frustration doctor Granger that I was dealing with. And I was trying to be patient with these people. And he's on a horse very sorry, he's not supposed to take blood, you know that? No, no. So she said something to him in Spanish, whatever. And I was like, I don't know what you're going to say, No, he's okay. He's fine. He won't bother you anymore. I'm like; you have to be like your own advocate. Don't you Dr. Granger?
Dr. James Granger: Yeah. Yes, absolutely.
John C. Morley: No family was there, they were all you know, quite a ways from me. And I just could not believe that experience. But somehow, through the grace of God, I was able to get through it, it was not impossible. But I just felt that I had to be really on the top of my game.
Dr. James Granger: Well, now imagine being a COVID patient in a hospital where none of your family members are there, you probably can't reach out to anybody by phone. And then the question becomes of whether or not you get, you know, XYZ procedure, you know that that's 10 times worse under those circumstances. And so my recommendation is you got to have a person that you're looking at,
John C. Morley: You've got to have a lawyer, that's a friend, and make sure that you know your rights when you go in and know your patient's Bill of Rights, because a lot of times they try to not share that with you. And it's your right to understand them. And it's also your right to sign out of the hospital if you want to sign out. But they don't explain all these things to you. And they make it seem like you're a captive.
Dr. James Granger: Yeah. And it's kind of a similar story with the vaccinations for kids to go to school. Okay, you know, you haven't, you know, you have a right to informed consent. And you have a right to opt out, well, the vaccines are up in the front of the room, and the forms to opt out, are in the back of the room, so you can't get to the back of the room without going to the vaccinators.
John C. Morley: You know, last two topics I have for Dr. Granger's one is I know some people that are, you know, orthopedic surgeons, one person that I actually got, who took care of my leg. When I came out of the place where I was told we should do surgery. And then he finally gave up, he said, okay, he says, you know, we should have done surgery. But he says if you want to go this way, it's up to you. Another person that I know not from a patient relationship, but just know him. They have a little bit of arrogance to them, don't they? With all due respect, they just feel like, I don't know. And I use the joke, Tim, I see. You know, I said, I know you're an orthopedic surgeon, with all due respect, I said, but I think I put my slacks on the same way every morning, left foot, right foot or right foot, left foot, we're not too much different. But they don't want to get that human element. Now this is not all doctors, this is mostly surgeons, I'm finding this with.
Dr. James Granger: Yeah, that's what I was alluding to before is, you know, we kind of have a little name for it; we'll call it the god complex. You know, I'm a surgeon; I saved your life, and you know, have the power of life and death. Well, so does an airline pilot, an airline pilot have hundreds of lives in their hands at any given point in time. You know, but I really don't, well, I try not to hold it against the person one because to some degree, I'm guilty of it myself. Okay. To the way doctors are educated, you have to remember, the person who gets into medical school has, you know, throughout their academic career generally been at the top of their class. A lot of times their job as a physician is the first job they've had in life. So, by the time you get through that process, it just reinforces you know, you're better, you're better, you're so wonderful. And you never really get to relate to people or learn how to relate to people. One of my med school professors said he learned more about being a physician by waiting tables. Well, okay, that is you learn how to interact with the difficult patient or people who are difficult to interact with, or people who may not understand some of the medical terminology that you use. And that's the art of medicine, which is arguably more important than science.
John C. Morley: It's the people it's the relationship reminds me of something I say a lot, is that it's not whether something's going to happen to you or not happened to you, or an experience. Its how you choose to respond to that experience that really shapes it defines the type of character or person you are.
Dr.James Granger: Yeah, absolutely. It's how you learn a lot about a person and how they respond in a bad situation. Everybody can be happy and jovial and courteous when everything's going well. And then, you know, to go back on the COVID people we're talking about were refusing your mask and throwing temper tantrums over wearing a mask. You know, that just tells you something about that person.
John C. Morley: Well, Dr. Granger, this has been really educational. And I just have one last question for you before I say goodbye this evening. And that is, what are the plans? Does Dr. Granger have it? Are there any other projects or things you're working on currently?
Dr. James Granger: couple things. One is my book. We have got it all wrong or a failed sick care system that was published back in 2012. I'm working on the second edition for that. I hope to go out later this year and summer at the latest. And just growing my practice, continuing to treat patients some adding some other things I've had a lot of my acupuncture patients asked about cupping. So we now have cupping sets where I can do that in the practice. And I'm also looking to add a functional medicine component, which works more with nutrition and lifestyle changes rather than just strictly pharmaceutical.
John C. Morley: Well, Dr. Gray enjoys it. It was a pleasure talking with you today. And you know, getting to meet a doctor that believes that it's not just about medicine, sometimes medicine is helpful. But a lot of times, you don't need to get medicine and it's just a breath of air to hear from somebody like you that believes there is another way.
Dr. James Granger: Oh, thank you. Thank you.
John C. Morley: Well, again, thank you so much for being on the show. And we hope you'll come back and join us when your book comes out because we would love to talk to you about it.
Dr. James Granger: Oh, that'd be my pleasure.
John C. Morley: Well take care, Dr. Granger, be well and be safe. Thank you. Well, Marcus, what did you think about that? Oh, man. Well, I mean, this doctor is doing it all. And he really understands what's going on with COVID. I learned a lot from him about you know what's going on and some of the calls but just that he really shed some light to us about the truth and bunked a lot of myths out there. So I hope everyone got some great value. I just want to thank you know, the great Dr. Dr. Dr. James Granger, has to come to our show tonight because it was an amazing interview. And we're ready at the end of our show. Ladies, Gentlemen, listen, if you have a product, or you have an idea for a service, just go ahead and visit jmor.com remember we are showing all about value. So if your intent is to try to push up for a service, you're probably going to get declined in the pre interview. But again, if you do have a great idea of Joe, always do a product unboxing go ahead and visit jmor.com under social, you can see the shows or the Contact Us area and reach out to us there and tell us what's on your mind. Again, we have some great guests coming up. And next week, we have another great guest coming up, which I cannot believe that we are in the month of April. This is like, you know blowing me away. Next week, we have Mr. Paul Claxton, who's going to talk to us about robotics and the automation in the work hub and what that's going to mean in the industry. But later on down the road we have the next week. Kimberly fryer, who is going to be an amazing guest just from reading her book, you're going to going to love her. And then very last week of the month, the 30th we have Lisa who's going to be with us and she's going to talk to us a little more about sustainability and how to change your life to have a more green friendly life. And it's not just about food; it's also meetings and this great Earth. Well I hope you enjoyed the JMOR Tech Talk Show. And we will see you next week for another JMOR Tech Talk Show. Have yourself a wonderful weekend. Be smart, practice of distancing, safe and act with your head. Thank you for tuning in to the JMOR weekly technology show where we answer your questions about how technology is supposed to work. And sometimes while you have challenges getting into work that way, for more IP support and tips, just text IT support to triple eight, triple one that AI team support to triple eight, triple one and you'll get tips on technology. I'll see you next week. Right here on JMOR Tech Talk Show.