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Radio show date 06-04-2021

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John C. Morley: For peace, they're the ones that own it. They're the ones that take the responsibility. They're also the people that take the heat if something's wrong from their department. So what would happen a lot of times in the beginning is they would put the decisions to what they thought should be in the software. But then what they quickly learned within a few months or six months later, when they want to roll out, It's terrible. Because the staff key using, it's so clumsy because they never used it. But they're the business owner. And I don't understand how they became the business owner, if they don't even use the process. Is that just like--?


Brian T. O'Neill: Well, yeah, and I think it gets back to, do I think my job is to create technology all day? Or is it to create some kind of positive change value, outcome, some downstream effect that's supposed to happen in the eye of somebody else? Because chances are, it's not for me.


John C. Morley: Hey, everybody, and welcome once again to the JMOR Tech Talk Show. It is wonderful to be here on this fantastic, fabulous super Friday of June 4th. Marcus, how are you doing tonight? 


Marcus Hart: I'm feeling okay, John. It's very good to be with you once again.


John C. Morley: That is great to hear. It is always great to be with you too. And we have an exciting show for you tonight, we have an amazing guest coming up, who's actually into music, but actually has transitioned his career into doing consulting for a user experience design. So we'll learn a little about that in the program as we progress. But the first thing I want to talk about is Apple. Now we talk about Apple and these big companies a lot. But Apple's making a statement. Yeah, they want their staff back, Marcus, in their offices by September, and I quote, "Workers must return to their desk for at least three days a week, Chief Executive Tim Cook wrote, some staff members will be given the option to work the remaining two days remotely". 


Marcus Hart: That's interesting, John. 


John C. Morley: So this is gonna be very interesting, because now they're setting this new precedence. And so, anything that Apple does or Google does, or IBM does, it's like, everyone just sort of follows suit, it that doesn't really indicate whether it's right or wrong. But they sort of start the bar of where it's going to be. And I think a lot of people, Marcus, that are working from home. I don't want to say they're taking advantage of this. But to be honest, they are here. Some people don't want to return back to work. And now that things are actually changing, I think it's going to be pretty interesting that all this is happening. And the world starting to open up I know a lot in New Jersey and many other places. But what I want you to understand is that the pandemic is not over, ladies and gentlemen, and what we need to do is still be mindful about what's going on. And I think we do need to return to work in a lot of places. I know like ours, we require that if people are going to come in the office, they need to be vaccinated without a mask. And if they don't have a mask, and we don't know them, we have a sign that says we may ask for proof. We'll talk about how you can get proof a little bit later in the program. So JBS, I'm not sure if you remember JBS but they're one of the largest meat suppliers in the world. And so, they were founded in 1953. And the FBI says the Russia link group hacked meat supplier rebel, is known as Sodinokibi and they're one of the most prolific and profitable cyber-criminal groups in the world. Wow. 


Marcus Hart: Wow. 


John C. Morley: And so this operation by these bad actors actually disrupted an entire meat production plant. And they didn't state, Marcus, whether they paid the ransom or not. But one thing about these ransomware companies that are doing this, they claim that they only hit the big guys. Isn't that kind Marcus? 


Marcus Hart: Yeah. 


John C. Morley: They want to actually go after the people that have the money as they don't really want to put people out of business. Well, ladies and gentlemen, you are in for a treat. Because my next guests Mr. Brian T. O'Neill. He is a consulting product designer and the founder of Designing for Analytics where he helps companies create innovative machine learning language, ML, and analytics solutions. Over the years Brian has worked alongside revenue companies like I'm sure you'd know, JP Morgan Chase, TripAdvisor and more. O'Neal also hosts the highly rated podcast show called Experiencing Data, where he speaks with a wide variety of guests, ask insightful questions and delves deep into the humanistic side of data science. Through seminars and free weekly mailing list, O'Neill focuses on the design and user experience of products, and how to make your innovative data products appeal to customers and produce business value. In his free time O'Neill is also a classical and jazz musician, and a professional drummer or I guess what everyone likes to call in the music industry as a percussionist. Please help me welcome Ladies and gentlemen, to the JMOR Tech Talk Show, Mr. Brian T. O'Neill, to shed a little light for us on Machine Learning Analytics and how the UXI plays a big role into that. Welcome to the stage. Oh, hi, everybody, it is John C. Morley, serial entrepreneur. And I am very pleased today to have Brian T. O'Neill with me to discuss some interesting facets about ML, which is machine learning. UX for user experience and the analytics of the designs. A lot of times people don't really understand it's not just about making something look pretty. Is it, Brian? Welcome to the show, by the way.


Brian T. O'Neill: Thank you very much for having me. Yeah. 


John C. Morley: We've got to make it functional. So I got to ask you, Brian, I mean, this is a fascinating field. Myself, being an engineer, and you know, hearing more and more about ML and AI and UX, how did you get into this field?


Brian T. O'Neill: Sure. I've been a digital designer for about 25 years, starting in the late 90s, kind of the height of the internet, when I was kind of getting going and we were building businesses on the web and all of that. So actually through my music career, I'm also a professional percussionist, and I was in the Flagstaff Symphony. And the conductor recommended me to an agency that I just built the symphonies website. And that kind of started some summer interning as a web designer. And eventually, it became kind of a second career for me. So about 10 years ago, I started to focus on primarily enterprise software, particularly, data products. So applications that are trying to help people make decisions with information. So sometimes we call this analytics, sometimes they're predictive, or prescriptive, which is more of the field of machine learning, and all of that. And my focus is really now on helping companies not put the technology first but to put the people first. So we look at it that through the lens of Human Centered Design. So the software actually works for the people instead of us trying to cram software down the throats of people that don't want to use it, or they don't know what to do with the data and the information that's there.


Brian T. O'Neill: I love that, Brian. I mean, so many times, when you think about a software app, or you think about a website, it's never designed for usability. It's designed for the cheapest way to develop it or the way that looks nice, but it's really hard to navigate. I was gonna ask you now that I know that you do music, I guess those are symbols in the background that I'm seeing, right?


Brian T. O'Neill: I'm sorry, yes. 


John C. Morley: Symbols and you also have a xylophone I believe I'm seeing there, is that right?


Brian T. O'Neill: This is actually a vibraphone xylophones have wooden bars; the vibraphone has aluminum bars. So it's a little bit different, like the NBC chime, if you've heard that that's a vibraphone.


John C. Morley: So we don't just talk about technology here, we learn about other things on this show. So I gotta ask you this. So when we talk about websites, we talk about apps and all kinds of things that can hopefully make our lives easier. What can we do to make sure that these concepts, because that's what they are, these brainstorms when we try to transform them into something that'll hopefully make our lives and other people's lives better and not just a fad, Is there any kind of tips or advice you can give our viewers to maybe think about or ponder before they actually start to do something?


Brian T. O'Neill: So if you're talking about from the creator side, someone that wants to create something, I think one of the most important mindsets to get right is to think about creating an outcome and not creating an output. Because it's very easy to make things today. So it's easy to find developers, engineers, designers to create mock ups, to create code, to create software. Getting an outcome, some type of value, which is defined by not just the business but the people who it's for, who is it supposed to serve? If we don't understand what the outcome is that we want the technology to provide, That's where things can go wrong. The user experience is a part of facilitating those business outcomes as well. Helping People get through their day and in my context, it's typically enterprise and business software. So reducing friction, reducing risk, reducing time reducing frustration, so people can focus on higher value work. And in my case, not spending lots of time sifting through data trying to understand it, but instead making decisions with that information.


John C. Morley: One of the things that always hits me, Brian, is-- and this happen from the very beginning, when I started, you would enter something in and then later on, usually on a government website, you have to enter it again. And I'm like, why are you doing this to me? You already asked me this on screen one, why aren't you capturing the data correctly and then reusing it? Oh, we didn't think about that. I guess that's just one example of people just not doing the right things.


Brian T. O'Neill: Well, it's an example of technology first, right? And I call this technically right, effectively wrong. 


Brian T. O'Neill: So it passes all of the QA and passes all the technical requirements. Technically, you can get through it, there's no errors. But man, is it hell. It's not fun. It's not enjoyable, it takes a ton of time, I got to start over every time. I mean, it's like these COVID vaccinations right. And that thing resets every time you want to go through it. And we have third party people making their own websites because all the government ones are so terrible. And a lot of this, it's like, well, this is what happens when we focus on cheap. And we focus on jumping into engineering and technology first and we don't think about user experience, it becomes a byproduct. And so part of this idea is that everybody, when we work on technology, everybody is already a designer. If someone's making a decision about what the customer or the user is going to use, they are a designer already. The question is, are they doing it with intent or is the design and the experience just a byproduct of all the technical work that they did? So a lot of my work is helping leaders start to do it with intent, leveraging Human Centered Design. And there's techniques and practices to do that. And there are things that non-designers can also learn how to do. And I'm not talking about decorating, I'm not talking about just look and feel, and the way and that stuff does matter. It literally matters on a business level, on a psychological level, it's not just about cosmetics. But I'm talking about how it works, how it feels. Does it deliver the value in the eye of the customer? Because the business is still people. And if we're serving business people, we're fearing people. It's just like government is us. There's no magic entity called the government, which is not just a bunch of people doing stuff. And it's the same thing. So when I hear like, we want to get business value from data, I'm always like, who are the human beings that are going to use the service? We have to understand their needs, and how they will make decisions with data or else your machine learning or whatever this initiative you want to do, it will fail. There is no business entity, it's just people doing things. So how does this fit in?


John C. Morley: I love that.


John C. Morley: I love that because very few people today, think about the "end user". And I know many years ago, when I had started when my very first projects we always talked about in corporate America as the business user or as the business owner. And for those of you that are not very technical watching the show, those are the people that are basically responsible for, let's call it the module or the software piece. They're the ones that own it, they're the ones that take the responsibility. They're also the people that take the heat if something's wrong from their department. So what would happen a lot of times in the beginning is they would put the decisions to what they thought should be in the software. But then what they quickly learned within a few months or six months later, when they want to roll out is terrible. Because the staff can't use it. It's so clumsy because they never used it. But they're the business owner. And I don't understand how they became the business owner, if they don't even use the process. Right? Is that just like an [sp 14:12] oxymoron?


Brian T. O'Neill: Well, yeah, and I think it gets back to, do I think my job is to create technology all day, or is it to create some kind of positive change, value, outcome, some downstream effect that's supposed to happen in the eye of somebody else? Because chances are, it's not for me, it's for somebody else. However, in a lot of especially large companies, you get paid to show up. And it's easier to just kind of focus on the tech and it's almost like Well, I don't really want to know what's going on over there. And for a while, some people may be able to hide behind that but ultimately, someone has responsibility at a high level to deliver value on this and this is starting to change. It's changing especially in the field of data science, which was a very hot area, it's still is in the last couple years. But now conversation is changing to, when are we going to start getting some value for all this very expensive investments we're trying to make? Because the business leaders are still saying, Oh, we want it, we need an AI strategy. And its tactics solution first. And most of the people doing this work aren't trained to go out and find problems to think strategically, to think about users. They're very good at solving a well-defined data problem, a data science problem but there's a different skill set, which is to understand what is the problem because, we need AI is not a problem. It is a leading statement with a tactic built into it. So product and design thinking teams, teams that think about the customer and the problem space first, they're going to succeed better at this, but we need to change the culture a bit. And so a lot of my work is in trying to help data science and analytics groups think about that user experience piece as a way that will actually let them do more rewarding work, they will produce more value, but their stuff will get used, they won't spend six months building something that no one's going to use, they won't have people saying when are we going to get to see something that matters, when are we going to get to see some value from this thing? We will find out sooner because we will be leveraging more rapid iteration cycles. And we will focus on learning by working with the customer and not trying to shove the solution down their throat nine months later, when they haven't been involved. Here's a model that will tell you what pricing to use when you're selling widgets to a customer? And you send that to a sales team who's never heard of you. They don't know what data sciences and now the AI is supposed to tell them, here's the price to charge for carrots if you're going to sell carrots to the grocery store. They're not going to use that they're going to do it the old way. Unless there's fear of their job or something else. The easier way is to understand what's it like to be a salesperson selling carrots to a grocery store? And how to set the prices? How do you do it now? How can we make it better? What's difficult about that? And working together with a customer, we have a much higher chance of actually delivering a machine learning solution or AI solution or analytics that will actually get used on a regular basis, that human machine interaction piece is really important.


John C. Morley: This reminds me of the paradigm, when people said they want to become successful. One of the things that some of the great people in the world have said if you want to be successful, go ahead and study someone who already is successful and mirror what they do, but write down what they do, know what they do, understand the process. And then when we understand the process, we can then teach that to someone else so they can be just like that person maybe a little better. But they can have the same characteristics or attributes. And I guess for our viewers tonight, what you really do in case people are wondering what is UX? What is machine learning? What is all this analytics? What does it mean to you? In English, it is a very unique science that helps develop software from a usability standpoint which basically means that you make the software usable for people, they want to be able to start using it because it's friendly, because it's just natural. It's not something that they have to use because their cell phone doesn't work. And they have to figure out how to unlock it. And suddenly, Apple took away the feature because you can't use the finger anymore, you have to use your face. So things like that, when you like something and you feel comfortable, you're going to use it and you're going to be the company's biggest person that's going to be giving referrals because you're so happy. They always say when you're unhappy with something, you're going to tell a lot of people. When somebody is happy, they're going to tell one or two people that hopefully those one or two people will tell a lot more people.


Brian T. O'Neill: Sure, sure. Yeah, there's different things going on there depending on whether you're talking about business versus consumer. Because if your business a lot of times you don't have a choice, someone in purchasing made a decision about the tools and services you have to use or I.T told us we had to go use this new application and a lot of that stuff just ends up not getting used. I mean, I've talked to people on my own podcast and client is like, we have 10,000 reports, 10,000 dashboards and analytics, things that have been made. We have no idea who's using what, we don't know what's creating value. And a lot of times new leaders come in and you know what they do? They shut it down and they wait for the phone to ring. To find out what actually needs to be used. And this is how much wasted talent and technology there is because it's easy to make dashboards and applications and write code and it feels like progress. Check the code and we have a weekly meeting. Here's what I made, here's the features I added, here's the bugs I fixed and it feels like progress. But if we never measure the value that the usability and the utility and we're not regularly interfacing with customers and users along the way, we may not be creating any value. So we have to stop measuring engineering increments all the time as the only measurement of success and look at the harder qualitative human aspects there which can be aligned to specific business goals. But that customer exposure time is probably the most important thing that technical teams can have. Regular ongoing exposure to real people that are using the solutions that they're working on. This is the best way to change the culture if it's a technical driven one or a data driven one, this is the best way to do it.


John C. Morley: You said a mouthful there, Brian, a lot of great nuggets. And I think the one that really resonates with me the most is that everyone today in corporate America is just trying to do busy work. So they can have meetings, and they have meetings for meetings for meetings. I mean, they have meetings and there's no point in having a meeting, just because they have to have a meeting about it. I mean, it's just like, so stupid. But I think what it comes down at the end of the day is they're just trying to justify their work as an employee but really, the management is the problem. They're getting them to do busy work, but they're only doing what they're told, because management actually tells them what to do. The coders are always just going to code, right? I mean, they're not going to know what to do, someone like you is going to give them the instructions on what should be done? Am I correct?


Brian T. O'Neill: Well, there's a lot to unpack there. I do think that there are organizations that do have probably a heavy meeting culture. My goal, I mean, with consulting, sometimes if people want the fast track answer, then yes, I might be helping someone with a strategy. And it's less about me telling them what to do. But saying together, here's the direction that might work the best for the users based on the work we've done together. Ultimately, if we can get the people making this stuff, working with the people deciding what the stuff is going to be. So if we're talking about software, it's getting the engineers and the designers and the product owners or whatever the roles you want to call it. But someone who has that business responsibility, working together and cross functional teams, we need these different perspectives, we need engineering perspectives on what's possible, not too early because there's a time to talk about technical limitations and how long it's going to take and all of that. But early on, it's really good to have different perspectives of business perspective, a user experience perspective, a technical perspective, a domain knowledge perspective. And these things naturally pull each other because they're all coming from different places. But that diversity of thought is really actually quite powerful in finding novel solutions here, because an engineer is going to have a lot of knowledge about there's other ways to do this, I've solved this other kinds of problems with technology over here, what if we just did this instead? They have that perspective, the person closest to the user, they understand the work to be done, I know what it's like to be an accountant, a controller, a marketing, a CMO, I know what that's like, I know what they're trying to do. Look, hopefully that CMO or whatever is also part of this equation. But these different perspectives help us develop empathy for the user and ultimately create better solutions faster. And in terms of corporate America, a lot of this is also about there's not a culture of learning. Everybody wants to throw around the innovation word, but part of innovation is about taking steps, failing, and then learning something from that. So if the measurement of success is about learning increments and not just about getting the right answer, it changes the thinking. But this isn't how a lot of teams work, and most places don't want to fail. And most people don't want to fail because fail-- and I'm talking about lowercase fail here, I'm talking about iterations of work that we did. We tried this thing, we tried to get it out quickly, It didn't work but here's what we learned. And then we change this. And then we did it again. This is not how a lot of traditional companies work. Software companies, a lot of more mature ones do understand this. They have cross functional teams, they work in short sprints and cycles. And this is getting into agile development, which I have different issues with in some ways. But sure, I like the idea of rapid learning, rapid experimentation, getting feedback, and building that in so that we're learning and this is really all innovation is, a lot of places just don't do it that way.


John C. Morley: They don't care. So I think this has been really educational. Brian, I think the main thing is that people have to understand is that when you're going to do design or you're going to get involved, you really need to have that empathy and that support for other people that are using it, whether that's on your team or whether that's customers because if you don't, they're going to just go use someone else's software. If we're talking about an end user type protocol. Brian, this has been really educational to myself and also to our viewers tonight. And I just want to ask you, is there anything you'd like to share with my viewers any way that they can reach out to you if they have further questions for you, is there a website? If you'd like to provide that, go ahead.


Brian T. O'Neill: Yes, I have a mailing list, it's my insights mailing list. So you can just go to And there's also a podcast I host there called Experiencing Data. So we talk about these strategies and how leaders are using human centered design to help build better data products. 


John C. Morley: Well, Brian, this was really interesting, really learned a lot. And I know when we have other questions about AI and other types of design, I'm sure we'll come back to you because I'm sure you'll be a good guest again if we have some of these issues, because they're gonna keep emerging, especially with COVID. I'm sure these kinds of, I'll call the cat and mouse are the chase, they're going to keep coming back. And they're going to be more vigilant than they probably were in the past. So again, thank you again, for your time, we wish you all the best. And it is great work that you're doing. 


Brian T. O'Neill: Thank you for having me.


John C. Morley: Well, Machine Learning, ML, you're obviously understanding, the UX, the user experience, often referred to, as we said the user experience or UX design, understanding from Brian about the meaning of why certain screens are chosen, and a lot of the work that goes into making a program, not just functional but also making sure that it has a human computer interaction that's going to make sense. Something as easy as clicking on a button. And then when you go to another site, and then it gives you an error message or not doing the desired result, and you have to try to figure out what it's doing. Well, that's not a very good UX design or a UX experience. And that's actually going to cause people to not want the product. What did you think about it, Marcus? I thought it was pretty interesting, a lot of insights he gave us and also the way he's also a musician and a percussionist. 


Marcus Hart: Yeah, a lot of that really showed in his expertise. I really loved the interview. 


John C. Morley: Again, we definitely want to thank Brian for joining us on the show today. I know the information he provided was very, very useful. And I know we all learn something, but to be able to really experience what's going on-- I think we don't often, I guess, appreciate the time that goes into software. I mean, I develop software all the time, but just knowing that there's a lot that goes into software. And if you don't put the right effort and the right purpose and the right meaning, Garbage in garbage out, right? So again, Brian, thank you very much for joining us this evening on the JMOR Tech Talk Show. Well, Marcus, something interesting is starting to hit the workplace. They're trying to ban non-work our emails and phone calls made by bosses and managers. 


Marcus Hart: Oh, man, this is fairly overdue. 


John C. Morley: And I want to make a quote, work has gotten more stressful over the last year, says Claire Millay. And I quote, there's a pressure to check emails, jump on video calls and to be on hand at all hours of the day. And it's become harder to draw a line between work and home life. I can agree. So when the day ends, whether your day ends at four or five or six, or what have you, I think it's really important for your employer to understand that if you're not on call, then you can't be expected to respond to emails because let's face it, it could probably wait till Monday morning. Unless you're someone that's on the graveyard shift or you're someone that is right there 24 seven, meaning to jump in at a moment's notice because something has happened. That's really the only time and that's part of your job description. But what's happening, Markus, is all these people that whether they are in Client Services, customer service, whether they're day engineers, whether they're programmers, whether they're business analysts, accountants, sales professionals, the Boss is starting to just presume that because they're home, and they were working during the day that they're just available. I think that's wrong. And I think it's rude


Marcus Hart: Dead wrong.


John C. Morley: Now I know there are times when that may happen for a certain project, maybe this weekend, you're on call. But I think it just can't happen all the time. And if you're abusing people like that, you're going to stress them out, you're going to cause them to burn out and they're going to quit. So I think we have to understand a big thing, which is to respect boundaries. And I want to make another quote, The official advice across the UK currently is for people to work at home, wherever possible to preserve the well-being, the Mental Health Foundation recommends that bosses stay in daily contact with employees. I can agree with that more, communication, communication, communication. My dad always said something having his master's in finance and also in real estate. The most important thing in real estate is one thing, location, location, location. And when it comes down to business or even people, relationships, you know what the most important thing is? Communication, communication, communication, If you don't know how somebody is feeling or how they're handling the workload, that could be a big problem. Maybe if they're part of a team. So communication, communication, communication. And it'll be very interesting to see, Marcus, if this is really going to happen, are they going to be able to implement an official ban by the government? Is that going to happen? 


Marcus Hart: It's possible. 


Marcus Hart: Yeah, another one.


John C. Morley: And I want to quote something else, the Office for National Statistics has found that 35.9% of the UK employed population did at least some of their work from home last year, this group while saving time and commuting, did an average of six hours unpaid overtime each week. That adds up ladies and gentlemen. I know employers always say well, gee, what's five minutes? What is five minutes? Well, if you think about someone from the reverse end of the spectrum, and let's just say that someone worked for you, and they came in late, five minutes, every single day. So you do that, ladies and gentlemen, times-- Okay, you can basically take the five minutes on the end, and maybe they did on the outs. So maybe that's 10 minutes a day, if you take 10 minutes a day, times 365 days a year, that's a lot. So now, let's say we take away that maybe they had vacation for, I don't know, let's say they had 14 days. Okay? Again, you have to do it by the days, you have to realize that in a calendar, I'm just going to go ahead and subtract out just because there's weekends and stuff like that too. I'm actually going to do this math a little bit better, I'm going to do 10 times, five days. And instead of being 52 weeks of the year, I'm going to basically say 50 weeks, so we're going to count for the vacation. So that is, ladies and gentlemen, 2500 extra minutes. Well, you're probably seeing me, john, that really doesn't matter. Okay, so let's say you're a basic employee and you make $25 an hour. If we divide that ladies, gentlemen by 60, that is 0.416. If we multiply that times 2500, that's an additional $1,041.66 that employee is beating you on. But, Ladies and gentlemen, let's now flip the slipper and see what happens when six hours of overtime. Now I just told you $25. Now that's a low hourly rate, but let's just start there. If we take $25 an hour, okay? And we're seeing that they're doing an average of about six hours, that's a lot per week. So if we take that same time-- first, let's go ahead and take the factor of what it is. So that's $150 extra times 50 weeks a year. That's $7500. That is more than if we take what it was it was just sitting at right at around $1,061. That is more, ladies and gentlemen, than six times that's almost seven times point something that the employees are actually ripping off the employer. Now I know that we always think that that five minutes is no big deal, that 10 minutes a day is no big deal. But it adds up, ladies and gentlemen. And I know you're saying, well, gee, what does it matter if it's only 1000 bucks? Okay, you don't think the $1,000 important, let's go and think about the fact that as let's say $1,061 and no cent. And let's just say you had, I don't know, let's say you had four employees that did that. You just wasted yourself $4,244 on payroll, not to mention the extra money you have to pay. Because when payroll kicks in, there's extra money you have to pay the government and paying unemployment and Medicare, things like that. So I think, Ladies and gentlemen, it's really important that right now employees treat employers with respect. And employers treat employees with respect, it's a two way street, ladies and gentlemen. And so I feel that working from home is not something that can happen all the time, especially if your boss cannot trust you 24 Seven. There has to be a real symbiotic trust relationship. And if you don't have that, ladies and gentlemen, you're not going to be a telecommuter, you're not gonna be able to work from home. So let's be honest, before we start throwing stones at our own glass houses, let's go ahead and look before we throw them at other people's glass houses, look at ourselves first, because we may be really doing something that is wrong. And even though in the case of the fact that people say, oh, gee, it's a problem, It's a problem, It's a problem. But now just think about the employees that were complaining about that whole thing. And now the employee was having an issue with the five minutes and saying, oh, gee, that's a big problem and saying it's up to the employee, but now the employee is taking advantage over seven times what the employer was happening to them when they were in the office. So again, it's still an employee type thing. But in the office, they're beating them a lot less. So again, let's be mindful of those things, ladies and gentlemen, and there's something I need to bring up to you guys. If you've gotten vaccinated right now, I want you guys to all go to And what that will pull up is a website that has been featured on numerous media places like Fox, ABC, NBC, the Dallas Morning News, and Yahoo Finance. And by the way, all you have to do is enter your phone number there, click Create My Vax yes card, it will text you, it will ask you for your first name, you'll text that back, it'll ask you for your last name, text that back, it'll ask you which vaccine you got. Believe one for Pfizer, two from a journal or three for Johnson, you'll text one, two or three appropriately back, it'll ask you for the date of your first vaccine, you'll put the date in MONTH, DAY, all slashes and then the four-digit year. Then it will ask you for the lot number, then it will ask you for the second date of your vaccination. If it was just a one dose vaccination, then you can just ignore that. But you put that and then I asked you for that lock number. When you're done with that, it's going to ask you for your Vax card, then it's going to go ahead and ask you for your driver's license, all done through text, and then they're going to verify it. They're going to even possibly call your medical institution where you got vaccinated to make sure your card is not a fake because we know a lot of people selling fake cards. And within about one to three days, they're gonna send you an email, you can log in from your phone, and you can download the certificate, the VAC certificate and add that to your Apple wallet. And all you have to do ladies and gentlemen is you just have to hit the button. And you can just show it right at the very bottom just like when I click on my phone, you're gonna see I have two buttons, I actually have my debit card and at the bottom, I have my getvax card. I just click it and it pulls up on the screen with even a QR code. So definitely do that, it is completely free. Ladies and gentlemen, I think you're gonna find a lot of value in that. I hope that you have enjoyed this show as much as I have. And if you missed any of the shows, you can always go to That's right. And you can watch them even at 1am in the morning if you miss something. But I want to share with you because we have some great guests coming up. Next week, which is June 11, we have Dr. Michael Hutchinson, and he's going to talk to us really the truth about COVID. After that, we're going to have Sheila Mac coming, who actually is the author of Bootstraps, and Bra straps. That's gonna be really interesting. And then on the last Friday of the month, we're gonna have Andrea Ruiz come, and he's going to give us some information on how we can improve our daily lives. Ladies and gentlemen, it is always a pleasure to be with you here on the JMOR Tech Talk Show. And listen, if you have not visited our website, go ahead and do that, please do go to those videos, please like them, please subscribe them, click that bell notification icon. So you'll be notified if you don't watch the tech show live every week. We know not everybody can make it at 5:30pm eastern. So that's why we have those there. And seven to 14 days after the show airs, we transcribe the entire show, going right to our website, being able to read it, making it very friendly for everyone just making it really, really simple. And we're constantly trying to do things to make things easier for those that are not able to have the accessibility. We're even planning some things right now where the site will be able to be read to you. So there's a lots of stuff coming. And we're going to share that with you. But if you have a product, Ladies and gentlemen, or if you have an idea, go to and smash that reach out button at the top right, let us know about that product, you'll need to donate it to us. And then we will do an unboxing and a review. If you have an idea for a show or you'd like to be a guest on the show, go ahead and tell us about the idea. Remember, it has to be educational. You can't come on here and say you're selling phones or selling widgets, because our audience doesn't want that. But if you are looking to be an advertiser on our show, that's a different story. And we will be starting to add some advertising into our program as we progress because many of our viewers have said can we get on your show? Can we share a product? Now, just because we put a product on our show in an advertisement does not mean that the JMOR Tech Talk Show nor any of its media partners host, co-host have any endorsement to that product. And I want to make sure your understanding of that. If we do a commercial, we're going to go ahead and do what we can to make sure that is bringing truthful information. If we bring someone on the show, and we feel this is something you should try, we'll share that with you. But none of our, let's say sponsors can actually influence us and cannot pay us to put a show on the air, they can pay us to have an advertising spot. But we make the choice in editorial to decide, is this a guest that we want on the show? So a little bit about that real quick. If you're a guest coming to our show starting very, very soon, and next few weeks, you're going to apply to be vetted. And to be on the show, there is a small fee, you're going to need to pay because we need to vet you, if the vetting goes through successfully, we keep that entire amount. If the vetting fails, we'll go ahead and refund half of that amount to you. We will then schedule for recording, telling you for the show. And then after that we will have more details. But you do have to sign a media release. So this is how our show works. We're all about value. I hope you have enjoyed this show. Marcus, it has been another great show, hasn't it? 


John C. Morley: Well, it's always a pleasure to be with you, Marcus. It's great to be with all you folks. And it's great to not have to wear a mask if you're vaccinated. So enjoy your weekend ladies and gentlemen. And I will see you next week. That's right, June 11. But enjoy this first Friday of June. And I think it's gonna be getting a little bit warmer. So get outside, walk, take a breath of fresh air, enjoy life. And remember, we all have a lot to be grateful for. And keep building yourself by choosing to educate yourself every day, and you'll become a better version of yourself. And that's what we're all here for. Well, Marcus, we got to say goodnight. Goodnight, everyone.


Marcus Hart: Goodnight, everyone. 


John C. Morley: Thank you for tuning in to the JMOR weekly technology show where we answer your questions about how technology is supposed to work. And sometimes why you have challenges getting it to work that way. For more I.T support and tips, just text it support to 888-111, that's I.T support to 888-111 and you'll get tips on technology. I'll see you next week right here on the JMOR Tech Show. Remember,






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