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John C. Morley:
Well, Hey everybody, this is John C. Morley, entrepreneur, and the host of the JMOR Tech Talk Show. Welcome to our show. It is always great to be here on another wonderful, fantastic, fabulous Friday. How are you doing today, Marcus?
Marcus Hart:
I'm doing fantastic, John. Great to be here with you today.
John C. Morley:
Well, it's always great to have you here as well. My trustee co-hosts, we have another amazing show. Don't we, Marcus?
Marcus Hart:
Looking forward to it.
John C. Morley:
Tonight, we're actually going to hear from another international guest, Leonardo Marra a little bit later in the program, but let's get started with what's top in the news. So how many of you out there know Tinder? Okay, well, Tinder is actually blaming Google and Apple for enabling under age minors from getting on dating apps. I'll tell me that's not a lot to take in. I mean, who's really at fault there with them saying that, I mean, Tinder's you know, not able to take responsibility or is it because of the way information is being passed? They claimed that the two different smartphone giants have allowed under age dating app users. And it should be as you know, to only 18 above.
Marcus Hart:
Yeah, exactly.
John C. Morley:
And so they're researching this and trying to see what's going to go on, but this is something that is definitely going to be in the news for a while. And the chief legal officer Jane Sine testified to the us Senate on April 21st, according to Steffani Reynolds, Bloomberg, that they claim this is what is going on and you know, Match versus Apple and Google, really a different world. But then again, not so. Is Tinder really a dating app or is it something else? Because more and more people are getting on Tinder, but unfortunately, Marcus relationships and love is not really being built. So I think this is something that we have to be concerned about. You know, when you use an app your privacy, we all know that Facebook for a while you know, had, still does, takes information, and now you can delete that information, but they don't make it very easy to delete a third party or offline Facebook data. And they use and sell this all day long from people like where you'd get deliveries from to other app stores that you would go to, or even dating apps. So this is really a concern, Marcus, that something like this is actually happening. And you know, it's going to be interesting to see what happens, but they have stated that you know, a lot of these people are, you know, being caught in the middle, but they also said that they had been punished and threatened and even financially shaken by Apple once they started to develop rival products. So this is very interesting and this actually comes from you know, the Spotify range in both Apple and Google denied the allegations. Of course, you knew it was going to happen, right? And so, you know, with this testimony and now the fact that people's privacy and not just privacy, but the safety of their lives. Now, I don't know if you all realize this, but when you go on an app whether it's for dating or whether it's for just connecting with other people or networking, you have to realize that that information is sitting out there in the cloud and who is actually the one that's responsible for managing that. And so it seems like these apps are almost being slightly deceptive in how they're handling, you know, this type of behavior and what they're doing. And so now a new thing that's been talked about before, which I'm sure you heard about, which was the new app by Tinder called Swipe Night. And that came out back in 2019 and they had some similar challenges, but I think the moral here is that companies are doing things. And unfortunately if it's making them money, they're unfortunately looking the other way when it comes to people's privacy and their safety. And we learned a while back that if we can have a toy or a doll and the tall can get exploited and befriend someone and get them to share personal information about themselves, their family and their whereabouts, that's very frightening.
Marcus Hart:
It's very scary.
John C. Morley:
So I think we need to be careful about what's really going on, Marcus. So I hope people will you know, follow what's going on and we're going to continue to follow the Tinder story here. That's you know, blaming Google and Apple for failure to keep away these people, but is it really just Google and Apple that should be blamed? Is Tinder at fault? And I have to say, if you're taking information from Google and Apple, maybe you should be doing your own checks to make sure that the people are actually you know, who they say they are. And so I don't know if that falls a hundred percent on Google and Apple. I know there's a good part, but Tinder could still be doing some other things that could verify a person is 18 or older. Maybe they could ask a question that only somebody that was born around that year would know. So there's lots of things they actually can do. So we'll have to see Marcus what's going to happen. And I think as we progress more and more is going to transpire, but I think the biggest problem is going to be for people to realize that dating apps and social networks, they're not safe. We always said, you know, you wouldn't give your credit card out to a total stranger, but why do you do it over the internet to just anyone? And why don't you just give out your personal information about your life? Why are we so trusting in an app that just got built a few weeks ago or a few years ago? Why do we trust it? That's some fairly tough questions that I think have to be asked and answered sometime soon. Well, IBM international business machines announced its first two nanometer processor, better performing chip. That actually is more efficient because it uses less power. So when we talk about a two nanometer processor, the processor can base the deliver, according to statistics, a 45% performance boost with the same amount of energy being delivered to the chip as the current seven nanometer chips. So that's pretty impressive. And the same level performance is using 75% less energy. And this is all according to IBM. So the two nano-meter chip is going to be very, very popular. The question is what's the cost of it going to be to the end users? And is this something that's going to become, let's say part of the main line of manufacturing and available to people at a relatively reasonable price. So I think we're going to have to wait and see that you know, two nanometre chips, where things are going because we want to have chips that are obviously more efficient that we can put more information on. And so I think this is going to be something interesting to follow and technology, you know, is going to keep getting better, just like hard drives have gotten better. We can now stack the platters. We can put more information and now we have digital hard drives that don't even have moving parts. So I think we've really evolved, Marcus, from, you know, where things have started. And so I believe that, you know, technology always evolves. You remember a while back we had motherboards for example, that you know, had connections that were you know, just pin connections. Now we've got more Molex type connections so that even though they have pins on them, they're not so easy to break or damage and you can pull the connectors on and off very easily. And most importantly, you can't really put the connector on wrong unless you try very hard. So damaging something is a lot harder not saying that it can't be done, but definitely it is going to be something that more and more people are concerned about is being able to use technology that is truly plug and play and so, you know, the exact method of how they're manufacturing these two chips, the two nano-metre and now the seven nano-meter processor. They're gonna use billions of transistors and electrical and AND Gates and they'll switch on and off to perform various calculations because remember a computer is just zeros and ones, and it's going to take some Mondo power to do this. The way we actually can put the seven animator into a quantitative state is to take the size of a transistor with a nano-metre and being useful to basically measure that in metrics for judging how power is going to travel from a particular place to another part and to the CPU. And so where it's going to go and not go and the actual time. So the seven nano-meter chip is referred to as the TSMC process. And it's what the new Apple, a 12 X chip is actually based around and the AMD new CPU's are based around. So there's a lot happening. And I think you know, when we talk in terms of the TMSC there is a lot that's gonna happen and it is the world's dedicated some of the conductor foundry since 1987. And it supports a very stable growing economy. And so my only question is why is it that we in America can't produce this level of quality?
Marcus Hart:
Good question. That's a real good question.
John C. Morley:
We're always relying on other companies, and countries specifically. Why is that happening? Is it because we don't have the drive? Is it because we don't have the resources? Well, what would it look like if the United States of America did have the resources? I have to tell you, our world will be different. There would probably be more jobs and we would have more control over technology because we would be the ones that were actually the originators and not the ones trying to get a product from somewhere else. A lot of times we develop technology here in the United States, but it's too expensive to manufacture. So we send it overseas. Quality is awfully an issue. And other things that pop up besides quality is the fact that maybe when it's being built, it actually doesn't have the same, let's say pathway that maybe it would be if it was done in the United States, you know, maybe forget quality, but maybe they do things a little bit differently. And so when we translate it and someone overseas makes it, they might take some shortcuts. I'm just saying. And so TSMC is a global capacity with about 13 million and 300 millimeter equivalent wafers per year as of 2020. And it makes these chips for customers with process nodes from two microns to seven to five nanometers. So this is where we're going and with the seven nanometer chip happening, the TSMC in case you're wondering, stands for Taiwan, semiconductor manufacturing company, why don't we have the U S M C, the United States manufacturing company or the U S SMC, the United States semiconductor manufacturing company. I'm just saying, well, our next guest is going to be a real tree, Leonardo Marr. He is an APAC area manager. He is actually the host of a podcast show called the international business podcast. He is a sales management professional with a solid background in cross-functional and cross-cultural relationships. Currently, he manages the Asia Pacific region for the Institute Marogani and Domus Academy the global education pillars for professionals that are creating and learning in the fashion art and design fields. And I think this is going to be really interesting to talk to him because not only are we going to probably learn about him, but we're going to learn a lot about the culture. And I think culture, Marcus, is really key and having people to be able to really grow from the current position and set new milestones and achieve even grander goals. Ladies and gentlemen, please help me welcome tonight to the Je tech talk show, Mr. Leonardo Marra.
John C. Morley:
Well, welcome, Leonardo, to the Jmor Tech Talk Show. It is a pleasure to have you here tonight.
Leonardo Marra:
Hi, John. It's a pleasure for me to be here.
John C. Morley:
So looking at your background, you've really been very busy and I see that with the pandemic your life has probably changed quite a bit. Right? What did you do if I may ask before the pandemic?
Leonardo Marra:
Yeah. So before the pandemic, I was working in a medical device sales, so I'm based in Shanghai, China, and in my previous job, I was a B2B sales manager, so working for a Chinese manufacturer, and my job was to find distributors all over the world with a focus on Europe because I'm European. But I had distributors, I don't know, in the States all the way down to Australia. And I was traveling every single month, everywhere, again, from the States, Africa, Europe, around Asia, then the pandemic hit and here we are, on zoom. Actually, this platform is not zoom, but we moved everything digitally. And funny enough, I changed job during the pandemic couple of months after the virus happened in China.
John C. Morley:
So I have to ask you, you know, with that type of change, because a lot of people, you know, they see the difference between a successful person. An entrepreneur is somebody who can think on their feet. And that's something we've obviously had to learn how to do, if you didn't have to do it already to be resilient, stay successful. So what is your role now, Leonardo, and how did that change from what you were doing in the past?
Leonardo Marra:
So the industry completely changed because I was for over five years in a med tech medical devices. And now I work in fashion. So I will say completely unrelated industries. I was talking to surgeons and to medical distributors. And now I talk with education consultants, university professors, and 18 year old students who want to go to London or Paris or Milan to study fashion design. So lots of people were very kind of shocked when they heard about this change. But I think for instance, if you're in, into sales, it's all about building relationships. It is all about understanding what the customer wants or needs. It is all about. I will say, analyzing your surroundings and finding solutions to problems. So at the end of the day, I don't want to say the fashion and medical device is the same, but I really believe that the foundation of some business areas, it is exactly the same. It's all about again, finding mutual grounds. And I think I'm kind of proof of this because, you know, I really change from an industry to another one that is completely different. I was working for a Chinese company now working for an Italian company first time in a decade later,
John C. Morley:
I have to say, and you and I didn't talk before our interview, other than just to say hello, you're like reading my mind. Did you like get a wire into my brain? Cause it was like the same thing. It's like, you went from one issue to another, but the matter what industry you're in, you're really not selling anything. If you're selling something, you're selling yourself, but you're building relationships. And what I like to talk about, Leonardo, is building value into relationships. So many people want to set up a one-on-one Oh yeah, let's get and set up a one-on-one. Okay, what are we going to do? Oh, let you set up one. Okay. We'll set up one. And then it becomes this sales presentation, you know, and I know we're all in sales, regardless of whether it being an engineer, a podcast or talk show hosts, a sir entrepreneur, we're all in sales. But at the end of the day, it's about solving problems. Right? So let me ask you something, Leonrado, how would you say that you bring value to the table and what are your non-negotiables for networking in business?
Leonardo Marra:
I think that to bring value into a business relationship, the very first thing we all need to do is to listen. And okay, this comes from a salesman. Usually, you know, salespeople are famous, maybe unfortunately, because they talk a lot. So if you're in sales, like I am, if you kind of step back a little bit, an listen more, I think everything becomes easier. First of all, because most of the salesman talk too much. And second, if you step back and listen more often than not, you're going to find the solution because your customer is going to tell you that. And I'll take as an example, my change, my industry change. I really knew nothing about this industry, about the company, about the customers, but you know, one month later, two months later into the new job, I was, let's say settling, but how did I do that? By listening. Because if I wasn't going to talk, I was probably going to say something foolish because I didn't know enough. I was lucky because I had and I have a great mentor, but at the same time I spent most of my time listening and then eventually talking. Non-negotiable, you have to be consistent no matter what you're selling. Okay. Let's focus on sales here. You have to be consistent. So are you promising something on a specific date? You have to do that. Let's say on a one-to-one with student or a client, no matter the industry, you need to listen and then you need to deliver whatever it is that you promised to them. So to succeed, especially in a new role, in a new industry, again, patients, listening skills, but resilience, you need to be constant, no matter what you do, you need to improve step by step and take it from there.
John C. Morley:
I love that, Leonardo. That is excellent advice to our viewers to have those non-negotiables and not to settle. I think that's really important, to set the standard. And if people don't, let's say fall into that range, well, then it's time to move on. And I'm not trying to be picky here, but you know, we have a right to choose who we want to do business with. And I like to say, you know, we want to do business with high caliber people, people that appreciate the value that you myself and other professionals bring to the table. Now I have a very hard question for you. We've all had the challenges, whether it been on LinkedIn or be in an email, how do you handle somebody? You know, when they fire off something to you and they're trying to sell you, or I call it the 17 page classic dissertation and I always ask them. So I didn't know. And they're like, what do you mean you didn't know? Where did you go to school? And they would tell me the school. I'm like, did they have a medical program there? What do you mean? Well, you're sending me a 17 page dissertation. I was sure you got your doctorate, and they just fall through. So how do you handle that? I know that's not an easy question to answer.
Leonardo Marra:
So John, do you mean someone is trying to sell me something? Is this your question?
John C. Morley:
Yes. So they basically connect with you on LinkedIn and they don't have a genuine intentions. Like I obviously did. I have genuine intentions. They reach out to you because they're trying to pitch you and you may tell them that you're not interested, or they just send you something that is so far off what you even need that you're just like saying this is a waste of my time. I know what I do. I used to go back and send them one of my courses and say, Hey, you need to take this. What not to do on LinkedIn, take one of my free courses. But what I do, if they still persist, as I say, you've now been blocked and I block them and they're done, because my time is really valuable. How would you handle that, Leonardo?
Speaker 4:
I agree with the last, especially the last thing you've said, John, time is valuable. In my opinion, if you receive, if I receive a sales speech on LinkedIn, that is not related, I mean, it's just not good. I don't feel guilty by directly blocking the person or just ignoring the sales speech. So your time is valuable and the more you work, so the more you get experienced, the busier you become, if you receive, I don't know if I can say this, but let's say a crappy sales pitch. Just ignore it or block the person straight away, don't waste your time. I wouldn't waste my time.
John C. Morley:
Now, when I reached out to you, because I reached out to a lot of people on LinkedIn obviously you saw that, you know, we were looking for somebody that had value and wanted to provide value to our audience. And I think sometimes you can have a very long message ,it has to be a couple sentences, but you have to get your point immediately. Even if you're doing something good people, aren't going to read an entire paragraph. They're just not going to do it. So I try to get right to the point. Would you think that's a good idea?
Leonardo Marra:
Absolutely. I mean, you went straight to the point, you mentioned the podcast, but one of us have a podcast. You mentioned someone that we have in common. So I guess that you had on your show, someone that I know. Yes. And you know, because you wrote this, I don't know, two, three sentences. And they were pretty short. You immediately grabbed my attention. And I knew, I understood that you weren't the typical LinkedIn sales person who's just spamming around. And then we had, let's say a longer conversation, but you did it right, straight to the point.
John C. Morley:
Exactly. And you know, I teach people how to do things on LinkedIn. And I tell people, it's not about spamming people. It's about creating value. And if you're going to send a message to somebody target that message, don't send a message to everybody all around the world and just hope, whatever sticks. That's just the wrong way. And I think people like you and I, and other intelligent people as well, there are many other ones in the world. It's just, they seem to be missing on LinkedIn every day. A lot of them are, I guess, sleeping, or those people just don't want to take the action. A very good person once said, and you probably know the person who wrote the book. You have to 10 X everything Mr. Grant Cardone. And I think it's really true because you know, when you're putting in effort every day, you have to put in more effort than you think is necessary to achieve your goal. If you think you've put enough in chances, are you have it? So I would definitely recommend for people to read that book. But I think the bottom line is you have to state upfront what you're looking for. And when you have a commonality, that's how we learn. You've been in education before and you know that a foundation really makes the difference, right? To whether you're gonna remember something or not.
Leonardo Marra:
Yes. And on LinkedIn, you have to customize a little bit and you said it right, you don't need to send five paragraphs or a lengthy email, just study slightly more the LinkedIn profile. And then come on, you can just check the activity that someone, you know, did on LinkedIn. So you can see what people do, what people follow, what people comment, what people engage, which content they engage with. You know, it's not rocket science, come on.
John C. Morley:
And then I look at just like you do as well. The responses that come back, if I get something that says, gee, I've got this book and I want to tell you about my programs. So the first thing I do is I step back and say, well, I'm glad you're an author. I interview authors. That's fantastic. But then if they keep pitching the program, like, you know, I don't think we're a match because our show is about value. And I think your agenda is trying to sell me. I don't need your program with all due respect.
Leonardo Marra:
I hate this. I hate people.... I mean, hate is a strong word. Okay though. I don't hate them,
John C. Morley:
That's okay, you dislike them.
Leonardo Marra:
I dislike, now there are many people that approach your LinkedIn and they straightforward ask you. Can I send you my free ebook? No. I mean, no, I really don't think this is a good strategy. I don't know you. And I know you want to send me a free ebook because then you're going to sell me something. You know what, if you spend slightly more time, maybe I want to say building a relationship, but doing something more before offering the ebook, maybe it was going to read your ebook. But if your first message is, Hey, do you want my free ebook? I'm going to say no. And then cancel you.
John C. Morley:
I think if you put a message out on LinkedIn, which I've done before and you put value in it, but there's no commitment to it. And you want to respond because you like the message where you want to check out the book. That's one thing. But when it's tied to a concession, it's not an NSA, a no strings attached. There are strings there. And that's why a lot of these, you know, YouTube, well, you know, go to my site, click on this link. And you're going to get this book that my staff has been working on. It's completely free. Well, yeah, it's completely free, but you're going to put in your email address and then you're going to harass me 24/7. And I think that's just the wrong way. Now. I know a lot of people get sales that way, but I don't think you build a relationship that way. I know one way that I get people very interested in myself is I provide a motivational tip every day. I go live every day and I provide a tip about what they can do on their life. Now there's no concession to me. It's just a value. So people get to know me. And I think a lot of times people provide value, but they have a hook on it. Now I'm not saying hooks are bad, but you can't do that when you're trying to build a relationship, whether it's Instagram, LinkedIn, or, or what have you. And you know, things have changed quite a bit. So as we progress now into 2021, which is where we are, and pretty soon into 2022 tell us right now, what is the focus of your podcast and why did you actually create that, Leonardo?
Leonardo Marra:
So, as I mentioned I was traveling all over the world every single month when I was in my medical device, sales role, pandemic hit. So I was stuck in Shanghai. So at least in one place for a long time, nobody knew what, how long that was going to be. I'm an active podcast listener. I love listening to podcasts because you can gather knowledge while you're, I don't know, cooking, commutin,g. Okay. Now I'm commuting, most of people are not community now, but anyway, you can get knowledge by while you're doing something else. And in my last 10 years, I work in several industries. I, you know, I'm Italian. I lived in Italy. Then I moved to the UK for seven years. Then I moved to China for three years. My network is quite large. So I was thinking, how can I keep engaging with my network? And not just customers. Because again, if you're a salesperson and you only want to interact with potential buyers, you're going to be an extremely boring person. Salesperson has to be a curious person. You must be able, you must be interested in learning new things. So the idea of the podcast came out and there was no matter the industry, no matter the role that this person has. I want every Monday to publish an episode where for half an hour, we talk about international business. So this person could be from any part of the world, but in his or her role this person has to work across time zones, borders, and cultures. So I interviewed people from med tech, interviewed people from fashion, and people from IT, intrepreneurs CEOs, sales managers, and I still do that. So it's almost, I'm still doing it. It is almost one year now, almost 50 episodes published. And I love it because I learn more about business, which makes me a better international businessman, no matter the role, no matter the industry.
John C. Morley:
Now, as we talked about, you know, being a chameleon, like being in the army, you know, they were these specific suits where people can't find them next to nature. What traits or skills would you say you had to add to your tool belt that you didn't have before the pandemic to make you successful now?
Leonardo Marra:
Well, flexibility, I mean, become even more flexible than what I was before. Meaning any problem, any new thing that came on my way, instead of looking at it as a problem I always have to look at it as a challenge to overcome or at least to learn from it. So I think that the pandemic taught me to be even more proactive and definitely being a person that yeah, accepts challenges even more than before. So don't complain no matter what happens now, you know, I should travel in my new role. I should travel in Asia. No, I shouldn't go to Europe. I should be around Asia, meeting agencies, universities. I cannot travel from day one. I was never been able to travel. Maybe I could have complained the first month, but now the lesson is shut up and work. Lots of people are in this position. So nothing is a problem. Everything is a new challenge. Let's put it that way.
John C. Morley:
I love that word. You know, everything is a challenge. When it's a challenge we want to conquer it. And this leads me back to something that you hear a lot. If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem. The people that are making excuses every day, they're not trying to make their life better. They're looking for ways to get a free ride. And it's not nice to say, but that's what they're doing. And I feel that if we can offer value, you know, you don't get an ROI tomorrow because you offer value. You and I know this we've been doing this awhile. And even before my podcast, I had a very successful radio show for a very long time. And then I decided to take it to a podcasting because I didn't really want to do video, but it's sort of more that I should get into that. I've done some YouTube videos. I said, let me start doing that. Let's provide the value. Let's show the people who I am. And I think when you have that intention, it's not going to be tomorrow. It's not going to be next week. But when people see that you keep showing up and you keep delivering value consistently, consistently, consistently, just like you said, Leonardo, it's about consistency. You know, it's not about, let's do it once and let's hope it sticks. It's not gonna stick. You know? And I think that's the whole thing is that in doing podcasting and this thing, it's great. Because like you said, we get to meet great people like yourself and we get to learn from them and we get to expose this wonderful information to people all across the world. That's the thing that is so powerful. And so breathtakingly amazing is that, you know, to say that I have guests internationally, I never fathom that when I started the show a year ago, I never thought that was even possible. And one connection led to this connection. And then I met somebody in Asia and I'm like, Oh, I guess I'm going to start taking international guests. And then that led to another international guests and other international guests. And then more people from the USA, say I'd like to be on your show. I'm like, okay, well I have international guests, celebrities, authors, thought leaders. And I think at the end of the day, it's about value, but it's about helping people and having a purpose in life. And I always say, Leonardo, if you're doing a job and you think that's all you're doing, well, you're in the wrong business. You need to have a higher goal in life. And if you don't have a more powerful why, you're not gonna be motivated to do anything, what do you think about that?
Leonardo Marra:
Yes. I completely agree with you there, John, it's about finding your why. And I will like to say that your why may change because I guess there's some people maybe are scared of thinking of their why, because they may come up with a very, let's say stupid reason. But I want to say to those people, because my why has changed and he may change in the future. But I think the process, at least a thinking of your reasons or your why will make you a better professional. It's not just about, you know, getting up at six :30, go to the office and then come back at six six or 7:00 PM. You know, sometimes it maybe, okay, today I was working until 10:00 PM because for instance, right now I'm very much aligned with my work. So what I'm doing is something that is inspiring me. I don't know how to say that, but the, what I want to be is kind of in line with some of the things I'm doing right now, which means then it's not just an eight to five or to six thing, but it's, you know, work is 70% of our life, more or less. So it is important to think about our motivation and not just looking at business as business.
John C. Morley:
I agree with you, you know, whether I'm here at my desk studio at our other studio or at my home studio or people in my IT company or my marketing company, or now I have an online Academy that teaches people. It's not work for me, Leonardo. I don't feel like I'm working, you get paid to do these things, but it's providing value and I have fun doing it. And I think when you have fun doing something, you're never going to work a day in your life. You're just going to get paid for providing value. And I think that's the message we need to send a lot of people out there is that, you know, you're a lot more powerful than you think, but in order to be successful, you have to take the first step. Many people don't want to take that first step. Now we're almost getting to the end of our time here, Leonardo, I'm really enjoying this. If I had to ask you a question, you know, and we were to pretend that there was a time machine and you could go back in time. The first question I have for you is how long would you want to set that time machine back? And the second question is, what would you want to change? And then be able to, let's say, jet yourself back to where you are now.
Leonardo Marra:
I'd say, John, that I would like to go back to my university years because during university, even if you think you're really busy and you don't have time to do many things, actually looking at my life now, and I'm sure the same is for you. We had a lot of time. And the reason why I like to go back is because I would like to have spent more time learning Chinese. So I'm Italian, spent seven years in the UK. Now three years in China, I'm learning Chinese. My plan is to stay here a long time. I love it here. And I find it difficult now to learn a new language and the language like Chinese that is completely different from, you know, learning English, Italian, and French, just because the structure and the mindset and everything is just another world. I find it difficult now. I try to study every, you know, study the language, you learn the language every day, but again, it is difficult. So if I could go back when I had more time, I would spend more time learning the language because learning the language, you know, we speaking in English, for me, English really was what enabled me to do everything internationally. I mean, it's such a simple thing, simple as speaking a bit, the language will open so many opportunities. So long story short learning, Chinese when I had more time, because even if now I can get by, but knowing the language, living in a place like China will just be even more amazing than what it already is.
John C. Morley:
Leonardo, I have to ask you something else. A lot of my guests will ask a very similar question. What made you gravitate back to China? I've also have Italian in my background as well. What made you want to come back to China?
Leonardo Marra:
I'd say that my first approach to China was when I was really a kid. So my father is been a sales man, an international sales man all his life. And he was traveling all over the world, all his life. And I have this vivid memory of him coming back from so far away, places such as Beijing or Shanghai, Schengen, Hong Kong. And for me, I don't know, it looked like he was coming back from a story, like a magical story. So I will say that China is specially, I don't know, the image of him coming back from China, maybe bringing small gifts that were completely, you know, amazing because they were just so different to whatever I was used to. I think that was the imprint that, you know, made me kind of, I don't want to say fall in love, but at least very much feel attracted to the far east.
John C. Morley:
I like that. And you know, I think international business right now is a lot more important than it was when I started business, probably now over 30 years ago, my first business, it's more important than it was when I started. I think the culture has changed and you have a lot of experience in cross-cultural relationships. Can you go into that a little bit and why that's so important now?
Leonardo Marra:
I'd say that maybe in high school or early years of the university, I was way more close minded. I mean, not that I wasn't able to accept, let's say, others point of view, but I quite often felt like my point of view was not the best one, but more often than not, let's say the right one. And then when you start, a little bit arrogant, let's put it the way. But once you start working, my first real job, you know, I was working for an Italian company. I was dealing every day with Mexicans, Americans, Irish, British, French, North Africans. I just found it amazing because sometimes you deal with people that seem so different far away from you, and then you actually realize that they are so similar to you. And then other times were with people that maybe, you know, your best mate, or your colleague that should be able to say similar to you, then actually you don't agree about anything. So cross-cultural is about navigating differences and accepting differences. And I think overall, it makes you a better person, not just in business, but especially, you know, with personal circumstances.
John C. Morley:
I have another question I'm sure you know, and that is, you know, in life, sometimes we don't always get cheerleaders that are on our side. You know, you want to achieve something. I'm sure you've gone through this and there are people out there and they don't support you. And I'll give you my twist to it in a minute, but I want to hear yours, that when you got people on the sideline that aren't cheering you on, or that are negative, or possibly these people that, you know, they just want to criticize you. What do you have to say about that?
Leonardo Marra:
My suggestion would be to try to care as little as possible and try to spend more time with people better than you in something, you know, but I don't mean better generally because that doesn't really exist. But someone that maybe has more knowledge than you, someone that is more experienced than you, someone that earns more money than you, someone that seems happier than you or someone that traveled more countries than you, or whatever. Spend more time with people that are better than you at something and spend and care less about people that just criticize you.
John C. Morley:
I have two things about that, I agree. One is that we become a collection of the people that we are part of our hanging around kind of like, you know, the food we become a we eat. And the second thing is, and it comes from experience. I had a gentlemen a while back that said to me, John, when are you going to give up? And I told the gentlemen that I need some time to think about it because I want to give you the precise date hour, minute, and second that I'm going to give up totally. He said, okay. So I took a few minutes to think about this and he's waiting for the answer. I said, I'm going to give up. And he's like, just, yeah. When a little baby boy or a little baby girl, and his eyes are kind of like rolling, says to their parents that they don't want to walk anymore, or even try. He sits back in his chair. He goes, when is that? I said, well, you're a very intelligent man. When is that? He's thinking, he's like... Never. I said, see, I told you were intelligent, man. You knew the answer. He's like John, you're arrogant, now get out of my office. So I think sometimes we have to be our own cheerleaders and we have to create that success inside us until we've had a successful podcast show or till we've gotten known by the media, it doesn't happen just like that overnight. You have to believe in yourself first and what's going to happen is those people around you or either going to dissipate away, because they're going to get tired. Just like the school kid that was bullying somebody they're not going to bother or, which is unlikely, but it could, they're going to change their attitude and are going to become a supporter. I'm not saying that's going to happen, more than likely they're just going to become a person that doesn't care. And you're not going to be the focal point of their life. You see a lot of times people do this and you probably know this, Leonardo, is because they become threatened from you. And that you are more than they are right now and possibly will ever be. So I think that's what happens and their self ego, and being scared about the fact of, you know, you're going to be better than me. So I better start putting walls up. And I would say you could do two things, Leonardo, you could build walls, or you could build bridges. Now the choice is up to you. I'd rather have bridges into many people. Now, whether I choose to use them or not is up to me, but I like to have gateways and bridges that are always open. I don't like to have a path that's broken because if I need something or I need the support of someone, I can still go down that pathway because I didn't burn a bridge.
Leonardo Marra:
I will answer very quickly. I love the fact that we can build bridges, but then we don't have to use them.
John C. Morley:
Yes, yes. It's our choice. And then these people, a lot of times come back and say, Hey, you know, you haven't used my bridge. Oh, okay. I've just been busy. So sometimes the bridge owner comes to you and says, Hey, you know, I'd like you to use my bridge. Okay, well, yeah, we can do something. Sure. And because you left the bridge open, now the relationship can possibly grow and you don't appear like a bad guy. So I think that that can be something. But the last thing I just want to say to you is what do you want to leave, before you give everybody, you know, your information about how to reach out to you, wat advice would you like to leave for our viewers here tonight?
Leonardo Marra:
My advice is you have to be curious, be curious, plan. You need to be a planner, but at the same time, you don't have to stick to plan because plans are going to change, but it is a good mental exercise to plan what is going to happen in the future. I really didn't know. I wasn't planning, let's say, to leave Rome. I wasn't planning, you know, exactly when to leave London. I may have stayed in London for, you know, 67 years and then died there. I wasn't planning exactly to go to Shanghai, but here I am. And my idea is probably to be here for the next 50 years. But you know, who knows? So be curious And the more curious you are, the more possibilities will come. And the higher, the chance is actually you're going to make a good use of the choices and opportunities that will be presented to you. But at the same time, you need to plan because planning is a really good exercise for you. And don't give up.
John C. Morley:
What's that one wise person that once said, if you have failed to plan, then you have inevitably planned to fail.
Leonardo Marra:
Indeed.
John C. Morley:
Leonardo. This has been a very interesting learning about your viewpoints and how you have transitioned from somebody that was in the medical field. In sales, still a people person, very much a people person, and then moved into a role to help people with their lives and inspire people and also help yourself. So I do want to thank you very much for being on our show. And before I say goodbye to you how can people reach out to you and tell us about your podcast show? So if our viewers would like to tune into that.
Speaker 1:
Sure. John, so the very best way to reach out is LinkedIn. Just look for my name, Leonardo Marra. You find me there. I love LinkedIn. I've been using LinkedIn since 2011. So just use LinkedIn to reach out to me and you can find the podcast on every major platform, The International Business Podcast. And every Monday, there is a new episode and, you know, just listen because you can learn not from me, but from the international professionals that come on the show.
John C. Morley:
Well, like I said, this has been you know, really amazing. We've enjoyed having you on the show. And I know our viewers have gotten a lot of value from this because I think if we can work together as a culture and as countries there just so many levels of potential that weren't even available to us now that you know, more minds are connecting and different cultures are seeing things different ways. And like I said, with, with different potential. So again, thank you so much for being on the show. We wish you all the success with your life and with your wonderful podcast. And they, again, thank you for being on our show.
Leonardo Marra:
Thank you so much, John. It was a pleasure.
John C. Morley:
Well, Marcus, what did you think of Leonardo Marra? I know I definitely learned a lot about some of the differences in the cultures and I think we're all learning. And I think this is a great benefit of the COVID 19 pandemic. There's a silver lining, and that is that a lot of us from around the world are starting to learn the importance of the different cultures, the nuances, and even how to do business with them. Because I think a lot of times when we see something that we don't know, we often fear it, but now that we're having a chance to get acquainted with different cultures, it doesn't seem that threatening anymore. And also now we feel like, you know, we can work together. This is something that I believe, you know, we were missing for a very long time. I definitely want to thank Mr. Leonardo Marra for taking time to come on the Jmor Tech Talk Show. I think a lot of us really enjoyed what he presented to us and how he is really starting to make a positive upheaval over in his country. And just getting people on board with cross-culturalism and process, you know, you can have process or you can have culture, but we don't have both of them and you work with different countries, that's a recipe for failure. So I think what he's doing is absolutely amazing. Well, many of you heard it before, and that is the idea that people are working nine to five, Monday through Friday. Well, that has changed. And we've talked about it before. Google is actually spun up the hybrid work model. Having staff spend three days a week in the office as our COVID pandemic restrictions are starting to just ease up a tiny bit. Google has said, and I quote they, 60% of its 140,000 global employees should be spending at least three days in the office every week post pandemic. This policy was announced in the company wide memo by the CEO Sundar Pichai which was attached to several tweets and published numerous blog posts. But, you know, the work week is changing. Microsoft is allowing employees to freely work from home for up to 50% of the work week or work remotely regularly with their managers approval. Other owners such as Salesforce and the owners of Slack have actually put the nail down and said that the nine to five Workday is officially over.
And most of its employees are now coming to the office between one and three days a week. Twitter and Facebook have announced similar plans to have their employees work from home or work remotely indefinitely. But I know the question is probably coming to you. Why is it that this is becoming so important? Is it because real estate costs are being able to drop with the amount of rent in leased space that is needing to be paid? And the answer to that is yes. Did you know that Google has estimated they've saved over $1 billion by employees working from home? I mean, that is just so amazing, Marcus, the fact that people are now able to do the same jobs by working from home. And I feel the challenge is not so much working from home, but making sure you have the right type of environment, do you have the same resources at home? Did your company provide you the same access? And not only that, do you have the environment that is conducive to a professional work environment? If you have family whether they may be screaming or you have kids that are running around, do you have a quiet space where you can close doors and be able to get into conference meetings? Although I think companies are being, let's say, understanding of people working from home. I do believe that they're not going to be willing to compromise on the quality or the experience that people are feeling when they work from home. Now I'll tell you there's a few payroll companies. I'm not going to mention them. However, they're actually not providing the same quality. Now I'm not talking about how the sound appears from the phone. I'm actually referring to how they're able to connect you or not connect you with supervisors since nobody's available. Since there's no one in their living room or the dining room or family room. And it's like a real chore to connect somebody somewhere because the systems are not really up to scale. It's like they're using this toothpick approach. And I think if people are gonna be doing business with remote companies, these companies got to step up to the pike a little more. They got to put some of that money. They're saving a lot of money into resources that are gonna allow them to manage the staff who's on the phone. How can we connect people? Types of systems that allow people to utilize them? Because when you're working from home, there should still be an equal and effective way to communicate. Whether that's through chat, on the phone email, we've had email for a long time, but if we don't have equal ways to communicate and collaborate, then we're really just putting ourselves into a box and we're fooling ourselves. And I want to quote, according to Forbes, ran stats COVID 19 surveillance report shows that 78% of companies found that remote work was more effective than they thought it would be. That's pretty remarkable, Marcus. There's always going to be those people that are, I guess, not going to agree with what's going on and maybe it's because they're just not willing to change. So that's 22% of America that right now, or of our world that does not think working from home really is that much better. And is it because maybe they're biased, they're not able to do their work because they don't really have a professional at home work environment, their family, or their colleagues, they're just not leaving them alone at home. And they're not able to manage the clients. They don't really know how to interact in that type of environment because let's face it gentlemen, it's a lot harder. The other candidates are the people that want to retire. You know, there's a lot of people out there, ladies and gentlemen, that I feel just don't want to work.
They want to collect unemployment. And they're looking for excuses not to go back to work. I mean, that is just sad. I think COVID situation is getting a lot better. I'm not saying it's over, but people need to realize it is time to get back to work. And so the first thing people need to do is change their mindset. I always said this one important thing, and I'll say it again. If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. So if you want to keep making excuses at your company and that company is giving you money, I mean, several companies gave a thousand or $3,000 to help outfit and make their home more productive. And you're just knocking every piece of food that's given to you. Or every hand that is, you know, reached out to help you. Then I have to really say from the executive level, maybe they should consider whether you should even be with that company anymore. If that company is just bending over backwards, Marcus, to help these people. And they're not grateful, I think there's a lot more people in this world that would be very happy and willing to work under those types of parameters. I don't know what else to say, but excuses are not part of the job. Your client wants solutions, right? They don't want to hear that you can't do something. If you can't do something, guess what's going to happen. Your clients are going to take their business somewhere else, and that's not going to be very fun. Well, listen to me, ladies and gentlemen, we have a great show coming up for your next week. Mr. John R. Dallas, I know you're gonna really enjoy him. He was with the heads of one of the largest title companies in the world. And we're going to learn about his new passion in a learning company that he's now part of. So lots of great people coming up. We have Krista Botsford Crotty, who's going to be coming up on the 21st. And she's going to talk to us about how she's running her business now with COVID and then on the 28th of the month, if you have any children, whether they're in a preschool, whether they're in a grammar school, whether they are in high school, you're not going to want to miss Sarah's interview because Sarah is going to talk to us about the soundbite of your college student.
You know, a lot of parents want to write their resumes and fabricate something. So they get into a good college, but you know, Marcus, if you do that for your son or daughter and they get off to college, what is he or she going to do when they're asked to perform on their own and their parents are at their own job, are they going to sink or are they going to swim and be able to really cut up to the mustard, or they can be able to do that because this lady that we're going to get to meet, she wrote a great book, and she also was part of that issue several years ago, where people were trying to let's say, deceive the admissions boards. She talks about a sound bite and how your student needs to have one, but it needs to match what their resume and what their interview is. If things don't match the admissions coordinators, they're going to figure it out. And probably you're not going to get accepted into that particular school. So, you know, lots of great things happening. And I think that we just have to realize that we have to apply ourselves on June 4th. We have Brian O'Neill, who's actually a musician, but he has another very interesting thing that he started to do. And we're going to learn about that and how he helps people with the design of software and how that flow is very important to the user experience. And I think a lot of people that are writing software today realize that it doesn't have to be pretty, but what it does need to do is be functional and able to flow so that it has the best work productivity. Well, Marcus, it has been a, another great show with you. So always a pleasure to be here with you. I guess we have to say goodbye, right, Marcus. Well, listen, everyone. If you have an idea for a show, please visit jmor.com. Go ahead and click on the reach up button and share your show idea with us. If you'd like to be a guest for a show, let us know. Unfortunately, we can't accept everyone that does submit an idea. Remember it needs to be something that is pretty stellar and that is going to educate our audience. We do want to thank Princeton community TV for picking up our show not too long ago. And listen, if you're a university and you'd like to carry the Jmor Tech talk Show, reach out to us. We will be able to make that happen for you and start having your students and your community interacting with some amazing content. Again, I am John C. Morley, serial entrepreneur, and I will see you and my great cohost, Marcus Hart, next week. And that is going to take us to the second week of may and that will be May 14th. So have yourself a great one, be smart, be safe, practice, social distancing. Don't lose your head, be respectful, but most importantly, everyone enjoy life. And I'll see you next week.